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Nov 20 2013

What About The Men?

Today is International Men’s Day and despite the self appointed guardians of Masculinity (AKA the MRA) having declared me as a Beta/Mangina/Whipped shadow of a man under the thrall of the femiwitches that control Freethought Blogs, I have decided to actually post something for it.

While men do have a big advantage over women in nearly all walks of life particularly in India where being male is like typing IDDQD in Doom.

But there are still issues that affect men and unlike the MRA I prefer to deal with these issues without stamping all over women’s rights.

Let’s talk about life expectancy. Men are more likely to die younger than women. This is something a lot of MRA assume is due to the medical system outright killing men but frankly it isn’t.

Men are biologically prone to certain diseases. Women are prone to certain diseases. Let’s take the two MOST common cancers in each.  Prostate Cancer and Breast Cancer.

Breast Cancer has a higher survivability rate as the cancer in women is easily noticed, awareness is high and self screening is easy to do regularly. So most are detected early and treated rapidly.

Prostate cancer mimics Benign Prostatic hypertrophy and being a highly vascular organ it is prone to metastasis and it’s first port of call is the spine causing neurological involvement. So Prostate Cancer is inherently deadlier. We have a new test to help fight it however prior to that people were furious that it wasn’t receiving the kind of attention Breast Cancer was. Another similar cancer to Breast Cancer is testicular cancer. Again in the more hygiene minded and those who enjoy a regular masturbatory session, the chance of detection of lumps is high but unlike breast cancer there is little to no option but to lose the testicle involved. Again it’s less spoken about than breasts.

And the big one is heart disease. Men are more prone to heart disease while the diseases women are more prone to are slower and more progressive in onset. I can help stop a heart attack but you have to be near me. If a woman had a thyroid issue she can come in and make an appointment and see me at her own leisure. That’s the reason women live longer. It’s just a case of stuff we often cannot control. Sure we can ask men to eat healthy and do exercise, but frankly you would still see a “small” trend of men dying earlier. This would be a lot worse if not for our medical system’s utilisation of drugs to retard, reduce and revitalise the causes of heart disease.

Another major reason why women live longer than men is that the old “big killer” of women was “childbirth” and the advent of modern obstetrics makes them less likely to die and so live longer.

Then there is suicides. Most of the victims of suicide are male. Murders? Men again are mainly affected.

Homelessness mainly affects men too.

And part of the problem of all this is that young men aren’t getting the educations they need, however I put this down to culture rather than anything. See in Indians in the UK boys are expected to study and go to Uni. Screw playing outside…

So we go to Uni more than our friends who spent the time being boys. I got Friday Nights to go out, but some of my friends were out playing football while I studied. I put that down to cultural expectations for young boys. For girls Uni was always seen as a way out of the rut of being a housewife and being powerless. The expectations of feminists pushed girls to perform. We never applied the same logic to our boys. We need to start expecting our boys to shut up, sit down and study and not putting up with boys will be boys and shrugging about their behaviour. We aren’t hammering the common sense that we hammer into girls. I suppose we think “they will manage” but a girl has to have her head screwed on.

We can look into all the reasons for these things. Men don’t have it as easy any more and there are places where men are discriminated. Look at the split of child custody hearings? Women are more likely to get custody and often good men lose all access to their kids.

But we must have this discussion without the usual suspects who utilise these topics to bash women. None of these things are due to feminists. Feminists aren’t stealing money from prostate research, feminists aren’t putting bromide in your tea, feminists aren’t encouraging young boys to not study.

We are. Our social structure is unwilling to discuss these things because we think that discussing a male issue makes us a misogynist. Granted there will always be some people who say that but frankly? You can support male and female issues WITHOUT contradiction. It isn’t a zero sum game. You can talk about few women being in the tech industry while discussing the lack of jobs to male graduates. You can talk about men’s healthcare without insisting that women give up their pap smears.

All these things are possible. Think about people and how they are affected.

Happy Bloke Day, Now here’s the joke.

Me and Ally on here are from the same city. I was supposed to meet him on my last trip back home, but Ally and me were awfully stupid and neither of us bothered to take a phone. This resulted in both of us sitting in the same pub waiting for each other and looking awfully foolish.

Ally’s doing something for men’s day. It involves being silent. Go Show Some Love.

15 comments

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  1. 1
    richardelguru

    Flippant comment to a serious (and good) post, but I now realise that since I have dual citizenship I must be an international man!!
    Go me today!!!

  2. 2
    Schlumbumbi

    self appointed guardians of Masculinity (AKA the MRA) having declared me as a Beta/Mangina/Whipped shadow of a man under the thrall of the femiwitches

    Avicenna, until you don’t know who you’re talking about, just stop. It’s embarrassing.

  3. 3
    prodegtion

    “Let’s talk about life expectancy. Men are more likely to die younger than women. This is something a lot of MRA assume is due to the medical system outright killing men but frankly it isn’t.”

    Really? Who says that?

    “Men are biologically prone to certain diseases. Women are prone to certain diseases.”

    Exactly. And this is the point I ALWAYS try to make.

    FEMINISTS are the ones who claim that women are underrepresented in STEM because of some nebulous discrimination or patriarchy. FEMINISTS are the ones who deny the SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED REALITY that the FEMALE BRAIN IS BIOLOGICALLY LESS PROFICIENT AT MATH.

    As for homelessness, do you REALLY think the fact that there are vastly more women’s shelters has nothing to do with it??? OPEN UP THOSE SHELTERS TO MEN. That’s what WE want.

  4. 4
    Avicenna

    Prodegtion –

    50% of Indian Engineering and IT candidates are women.

    Why? Because Indian culture does not say “Mathematics is Hard” to women. The notion you project is laughable particularly if you are implying there is a biological rationale behind women being less proficient at mathematics.

  5. 5
    Raging Bee

    …and despite the self appointed guardians of Masculinity (AKA the MRA) having declared me as a Beta/Mangina/Whipped shadow of a man…

    Yeah, that’s part of the fundamental hypocricy of the “men’s rights” movement: they keep on complaining about how men are stigmatized whenever they deviate from the desired male roles — and then happily do the same thing to men who question them. They’re not part of the solutin, they’re part of the problem.

  6. 6
    oolon

    If women are inherently worse than men at maths then how come in the UK girls were ahead of boys in the GCSE maths exam results? Pretty big sample, to be honest it’s flipped back again to about 1% advantage to the boys …. But this so called obvious advantage must be stunningly small for that result to occur. So small one might say it’s irrelevant, if it exists at all.

  7. 7
    oolon

    Actually saw a story on the BBC, seems Welsh girls are better than boys at all levels of maths ability and are getting better at a faster rate as well.
    http://www.estyn.gov.uk/download/publication/291864.3/good-practice-in-mathematics-at-key-stage-4-october-2013/
    So the only “SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED REALITY”, is that Progedion is prodigiously misinformed.

  8. 8
    Holms

    Schlumbumbi
    Avicenna, until you don’t know who you’re talking about, just stop. It’s embarrassing.

    So, the problem is that he does know, and he needs to forget?

    prodection
    “Let’s talk about life expectancy. Men are more likely to die younger than women. This is something a lot of MRA assume is due to the medical system outright killing men but frankly it isn’t.”

    Really? Who says that?

    If you are alleging that the health systems of multiple nations across the globe are responsible for the reduced male life expectancy, please provide documented evidence to this effect.

    Bear in mind that Avicenna didn’t even get on to the topic of genetic illnesses, which are also slanted against men thanks in part to that pesky Y chromosome.

    As for homelessness, do you REALLY think the fact that there are vastly more women’s shelters has nothing to do with it??? OPEN UP THOSE SHELTERS TO MEN. That’s what WE want.

    A large reason for the female only shelters is the documented prevalence of violence towards women on the streets typically perpetrated by men, especially against those women that turn to sex work. A better case to argue would be to have separate shelters for men and women. Some people will see that suggestion and see nothing beyond ‘omg segregation!’ and I agree that it is unlikely to be a perfect solution, but it is something.

    If women are inherently worse than men at maths then how come in the UK girls were ahead of boys in the GCSE maths exam results? Pretty big sample, to be honest it’s flipped back again to about 1% advantage to the boys …. But this so called obvious advantage must be stunningly small for that result to occur. So small one might say it’s irrelevant, if it exists at all.

    So, we can establish that even if there is a trend, it is less powerful than plain statistical variability. The signal, if it even exists, is weaker than the noise. It is a pity that blatant MRA apologists have a tendency to not bother reading rebuttals.

  9. 9
    prodegtion

    @4

    And how do they perform compared to the male students?

    @6

    Do you have data on the number of students of each sex taking the GCSE math exam? I don’t know much about the GCSE, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more male students taking the GCSE math exam, especially the advanced math classes. You may be comparing (for example) the top 10% of women to the top 20% of men. Whereas if you were to compare the top 10% of each sex, you would definitely find that men outperform women.

    The plural of anecdote is not data.

    @8

    No, I never said the lower life expectancy was due to the health system. That’s why I expressed incredulity when Avicenna accused us of making that claim.

    “A better case to argue would be to have separate shelters for men and women.”

    There’s no logic behind your argument. Men as a whole are not guilty for the crimes committed by a few men. There’s certainly no justification for not allowing men who pose no threat to women to use the women’s shelters.

    And again, see my debunking of oolon’s statistics. Statistics can be very misleading to the untrained mind (or to those who are deliberately trying to mislead). Be very wary of confirmation bias. Hone your skepticism.

  10. 10
    Ysanne

    prodegtion,
    I know googling is super hard, so here’s a bit of help: GCSE’s are the standard exam at the end of secondary school in the UK. Pretty much everyone (95% and up, depending on year) takes them. Maths is a compulsory subject.
    I’ll leave figuring out the likely gender ratio in people taking maths GCSE’s. Your superior male brain should do much easier at it than my puny little female maths PhD one.

  11. 11
    prodegtion

    But are there different levels of math? What’s the gender ratio in the highest level, for instance?

    I happen to know that more boys take the SAT math subject test, and do better in it.

    Also, I just looked up some GCSE math questions and they are pathetically easy. It doesn’t even really assess a person’s math ability. A math genius would do just as well as a student who is just reasonably good at math. How many women have undergraduate degrees in mathematics? PhDs? Fields medals?

  12. 12
    sarah00

    prodegtion, the GCSE papers are tiered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gcse#Tiers) so if you’ve been looking at a foundation paper the questions will seem very easy. Papers also generally start with simple questions and get progressively harder, so if you’ve looked at the first couple of questions then they will give you a biased assessment of difficulty.

  13. 13
    smrnda

    @pro..

    “Men as a whole are not guilty for the crimes committed by a few men. There’s certainly no justification for not allowing men who pose no threat to women to use the women’s shelters.”

    And adults as a whole are not guilty for the crimes committed by *some* adults against some children, but yet if an adult seeks to work with children they will be subjected to various background checks with the police, the FBI, will be fingerprinted, drug tested and even psychologically examined. If I would like to observe a classroom at the local school, I cannot simply walk in and do so even though as a taxpayer I am funding the schools. I might even be turned away.

    I don’t feel this is an imposition since it’s important to keep the kids safe. An adult’s desire to be trusted isn’t important.

    On shelters, I would prefer there exist more shelters, but there is no way to guarantee that any particular man will not pose a risk to women there, so I’d prefer to expand men’s shelters. I don’t see why you have this obsession for making sure that there exist no spaces where women are allowed but men are not. It seems like your whole deal is a childish, bratty ‘do what I feel like and piss on you’ attitude. It is 100% obvious that you do not care about women at all, and your only ‘care’ for men is just a cover for your misogyny.

    I agree that there should exist shelters for families, couples and such which single-gender shelters don’t often provide, but I can’t support taking away women’s shelters when we can simply add more men’s shelters.

    If women are biologically not good at maths (laughable claim, particularly to me as I’m a published mathematician) then the attempts to get women into STEM will fail, but the example of India. We have seen male domination in most fields since women were, effectively, kept out of them and then only let in grudgingly at that.

    “You may be comparing (for example) the top 10% of women to the top 20% of men. Whereas if you were to compare the top 10% of each sex, you would definitely find that men outperform women.”

    Whenever people give you statistics, you always seem to think up some *well, they could possibly be wrong because of this, and I definitely know it’s not true* untested hypothesis. You don’t really show any skepticism about your own beliefs, even in spite of evidence against it. So you use the ‘you may’ (the statistics might be wrong) but your contention is DEFINITELY correct?

    There is also no way to determine a biological difference in men’s and women’s maths abilities, since we don’t have a way for controlling for social and cultural factors.

  14. 14
    Holms

    Do you have data on the number of students of each sex taking the GCSE math exam? I don’t know much about the GCSE, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more male students taking the GCSE math exam, especially the advanced math classes. You may be comparing (for example) the top 10% of women to the top 20% of men. Whereas if you were to compare the top 10% of each sex, you would definitely find that men outperform women.
    The plural of anecdote is not data.

    I share your concern about confusing anecdotes for data. So. Got any figures for that definitely true claim of yours?

    Also, don’t you think that this is a fairly basic error for an analyst to make? Pretty sure a statistition would be aware of that potential error.

    Men as a whole are not guilty for the crimes committed by a few men. There’s certainly no justification for not allowing men who pose no threat to women to use the women’s shelters.

    “Drivers as a whole are not guilty for the crimes committed by a few drivers. There’s certainly no justification for not allowing drivers who pose no threat to pedestrians to use the footpaths.”

    You are correct in pointing out that the many are not guilty of the crimes committed by the minority subset, but that is no reason to remove those rules / laws / etc. that are put in place specifically as a precaution against that subset. Fucking hell, to think you accuse me of having no logic!

  15. 15
    AsqJames

    As for homelessness, do you REALLY think the fact that there are vastly more women’s shelters has nothing to do with it??? OPEN UP THOSE SHELTERS TO MEN. That’s what WE want.

    First of all, I think you are eliding two categories: 1) women’s refuges; & 2) homeless shelters.

    A women’s refuge is a place of safety for female victims of domestic violence (and often their children). And what are they a “refuge” from? The men who have abused them. I feel certain their utility would be greatly undermined by admitting men. If nothing else, the women are likely to feel less safe whether they are or not, and I’d encourage you to consider the meaning of the word “refuge”.

    I’m also pretty confident there are more women’s refuges than there are the equivalent for male victims, but whether that is discriminatory, a lack of recognition / initiative on the part of MRAs, or because of a disparity in demand is another matter. It is a legitimate question, but it is not particularly pertinent to the issue of homelessness…unless you can demonstrate that a significant number of men are homeless because of domestic violence?

    Gender specific provision for homeless people is another matter again.
    This site lists 391 places of “emergency” accommodation in the UK for people who are, or are at risk of being, homeless.
    Just 63 are men only! OMG, that’s less than 20%! WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ?!?!
    But hang on, almost exactly the same number – 65 – are women only. Of the other 263, 260 turn up when you search for “mixed” in the gender field (I have no idea who the other 3 cater for – children? LGBT?).

    There are some problems with this quick ‘n dirty search. First there’s no indication of the relative capacities of male/female only emergency shelters – there may be twice as many women-only beds as men-only ones, but given the 260 “mixed” shelters I doubt this is a real issue in terms of absolute numbers. Second, men are more likely to be homeless than women, so even if there is equal provision men would be (proportionately) disadvantaged.

    All that aside, your statement (in the context of a remark about homelessness) that there are “vastly more women’s shelters” is flat out wrong. However flawed and UK-centric the above may be, it is infinitely more data than you have provided to back up your original assertion, which I challenge you to do.

    And then, if you think it’s such a big problem, do something about it. Volunteer at, or donate to, Shelter or an equivalent US charity. Campaign for better provision / job training for homeless people in your area / state / country. You won’t solve the problem of male homelessness by writing whiny comments on a blog, and you for damn sure won’t solve it by undermining the safety of female victims of domestic violence.

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