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Education? What is it good for? Absolutely Nothing! (Unless you are Male)

So why do we need to educate women? 

Well to us it’s obvious. Anything I can do they can too (yes they can!). We have bizarre concepts even in the atheist community where individuals think that women’s biology inherently determines their role in life. And that’s why women don’t take up high paying jobs or high stress ones like Engineering and Law (dontcha know?).

Except this argument falls to pieces when we look at arguably the hardest career out there. Medicine. You need to spend a long time to qualify and women seem to be equal to men there. The person above would say that “medicine is nurturing and caring” in which case that person is incorrect. It is nurturing and caring but a lot of it is hard science and skill and above all a monsterous amount of education.

It clearly is because medicine as a field is more egalitarian and due to the expense of training up a doctor is more willing to let women go off to have families and pick up where they left off. In addition there was a general attempt to get more women into the field which was successful. The success in medicine and the high salaries only comes after a brutal struggle with the subject where you pretty much have to club it into submission. It takes years before you get the trappings of “the doctor”.

There is no gene to my knowledge that make women bad at mathematics and none that make men bad at caring. The entire reason why women don’t go into engineering is because they are told that they cannot do it. There is no scheme to encourage them. There are no role models until recently. If we look at India we notice young girls going into engineering because there is no such cultural pressure.

It’s embarrassing that atheists have this belief, but you can see it at it’s finest here.

Probably the most controversial and rejected position we have at Fix the Family is that parents should not send their daughters to college.  It is even more vehemently opposed than the submission of wives to their husbands.  Both of these positions we have are a threat to the trophies of the feminist agenda, so the rejection we receive is always emotionally charged and ends up insulting, since once explained logically, the opposition runs out of substance and is only left to hurl insults and presume and misconstrue this practical wisdom into some chauvinistic evil.  But to distinguish these 2 issues, we are NOT saying that sending a girl to college or women working is a sin.  But after looking at the issues we raise, we would challenge anyone to convince us that college for girls is not a near occasion of sin.  In order to fore go further discussion (argument) on the issue of college for girls, this article will outline the principal reasons for shunning college for girls.

Yes. It is. It is a threat to the feminist agenda of giving women agency and equality.

You cannot get equality sitting at home without any earning potential. It’s why a lot of charity economic reform consists of empowerment of women and provision of economic stability for them. When women do not need men to go hunt mammoth, men have to behave better.

Before getting to those reasons, first let’s deal with some of the common objections that are received when this issue is raised (FAQs):

  • You don’t believe in educating women.  False.  College and education have very little to do with each other.  College has become more of a training ground for a job.  Let’s be clear:  college graduates receive a diploma, not necessarily an education.  Many wise people in years past obtained great educations by seeking knowledge from books and good material.  Today, anyone can learn anything they want with the vast library system across the country and with the easy access of the internet.  So the real reason girls go to college is for a degree, not an education.  I strongly believe girls and women should be educated, first and foremost in the Catholic faith.  If we look COMPREHENSIVELY at the Catholic doctrine, we’ll see very little that promotes a woman working outside the home.  Further a good working knowledge of the basics for today’s culture and progressive society can be learned in 12 years of school.  Politicians say that 12 years is not enough today, but that is because of a failed corrupted education system.  Homeschooling parents can educate their children in 12 years.  College may be necessary for the provider of a family depending on the vocation God is calling them to or for those who are called to the Priesthood, both of which are intended for men.

No they cannot.

You can learn how to do a tracheostomy online. But there is a reason we trust doctors to do it rather than some dude who read the manual.

I think the problem here is that the people who wrote this don’t know the value of education and seem to think that any education that is useful to a specific career is training. And intrinsic to not getting people educated is the concept of wiseness.

You see people in the past made do with non-systemic education. And so we can quote anyone from Socrates to Ben Franklin as individuals who were “wise”. But we forget that even Leonardo Da Vinci had a master.

And we forget that for every Da Vinci there were countless Lamarcks who’s success was through failure. The world has become advanced. We are entrenched in high levels of technology. If one doesn’t have a serious education we will not be able to comprehend the technology that surrounds us. We would treat it akin to magic.

And as for homeschooling? It’s a laughable concept. I know for a fact that I am not educated enough to teach children. I was taught biology by biologists, chemistry by chemists and English by people who were qualified in the field. How arrogant must one be to think that no education equals the skills imparted by those? Home Schooling trains children for nothing.

I like the fact that when faced with a blatantly  discriminatory rule the truly religiously fundamentalist thinks “how can we adhere to it” rather than “this rule is stupid”.

Do It!

  • You believe in oppressing women.  False.  The Church teaches that husbands and wives are of equal dignity, but with different roles.  Almost all of our children will choose to marry.  Actually, since the purpose of a college degree is for a job, it becomes unnecessary for our daughters to have such a credential.  My personal impression is that the day-to-day grind of a job is below the dignity of women.  In a way, it is like being a hired hand, as result of the fall and the penalty for original sin.  Of course the Lord and the Popes have raised the dignity of work as a way of husbands living out their vocation and duty.  But the penalty for the woman as a result of the fall was pain in childbirth (which requires having babies), not to work.  Sending our wives out to work should be a very last resort, a misfortune, so it shouldn’t be part of a plan for young ladies before they even get a start at family life.  Keeping a home, being a loving wife, and being a nurturing mother are of immeasurable dignity to a woman and not something to be farmed out to servants.  The feminist world has twisted this so that a job (career) appears elevated, and homemaking is denigrated.  This is the evil work of Satan and devastating to families.

Because women should not work….

Let us be clear. If not for the beard and the western suits these individuals are as terrible and dangerous as the Taliban. The only difference is we have sidelined them. Those who buy into this nonsense are no different in the oppression of women. The only thing stopping these idiots stoning adulterers is the law.

Economic stability and agency in women  is devastating to families? I would think it’s better for families.

Oh  I see! See if women don’t work they are entirely dependant on a man. And have to listen to him because he is bringing home the Mammoth while she is sat at home. The idea is that if a woman is totally incapable of independent living she cannot leave a man who works. Therefore Family Stable!

If you chain your wife  to the wall she cannot leave you either. You just need to ignore the distressing noises she makes though. Likewise one has to ignore all the problems to see this as stability.

And how posh must you be to need servants if you work? It’s 40 hours a week. 8 Hours a day. Let’s say 10 with commute. Another 8 hours gone for sleep leaves you WITH 6 hours to do whatever your heart desires! I have never taken more than 30 minutes to vacuum the house. It takes me 30 minutes to cook up a meal too. And I do laundry with the telly on so that’s about an hour. The kids? They do homework right? They play right? You don’t have to specifically engage them with all your unbending Catholic Concentration.

You can “keep a home” if you split the load and if you stop thinking of jobs as “men or women only”.

  • You believe in taking away opportunities for women and trapping them into a subservient role.  False.  We believe in women making wise prudent choices for themselves.  The indoctrination of the feminist culture and the practicing of a sexually promiscuous lifestyle severely cloud, practically blind that good judgment.  Getting a college degree often makes a young lady feel an “obligation” to use it, to make money.  Often her husband doesn’t want to see it go to “waste.”  So the degree is what actually traps her.  Not having a degree frees her to enter into a marriage with proper roles in which her husband will provide for her and their children.  Christian marriage by definition does place her in a submissive role to her husband, but no one forces anyone to marry anyone.  She should go to the altar with full knowledge of what she’s entering into. 

If you are part of a church that subscribes to this, then any choice apart from this is not a prudent choice and will harm you both socially and economically since you as a woman are bereft of the necessary education and skills to hold your own in society.

It is fitting to me that Catholics would deny knowledge to women. After all, isn’t that the first crime? The original sin? The acquisition of knowledge by a woman? It is also amusing. Every religion treats knowledge as a gift from the gods or stolen from them. Only the Abrahamic faiths fear knowledge.

If you have no education and are told from birth that the only role you have in life is housework, childbearing and rearing and being a wife then do you think you have any choice in that matter?

Why? We tell young men that they cannot be nurses and young women that they cannot be mathematicians all their lives and it shows. Men rarely become nurses and women rarely become mathematicians. And that is with our fair and liberal views and unconscious bias. Imagine a conscious one and what damage that can do?

  • God calls women to use their talents.  True.  Women over the last couple of generations have proved their abilities in the workplace, but only in a different way.  God has always given women abilities to bring value and service to their neighbor, which is what people with jobs do.  But to distinguish, as Catholics anyway, it was rarely that a wife and mother did this until the last couple of generations, and look at the impact on family life.  Before, it was nuns who did these things buildings convents, hospitals, schools, etc etc.  We only need to read the lives of the saints to see what they did.  We see only a VERY RARE EXCEPTION of canonized saints who have this.  Generally women will marry and have children so are gifted by God with the natural abilities to nurture (feed and raise) as well as educate children.  Today’s society has a very accessible conduit for that ability that is very conducive to family life:  homeschooling.  Educating and caring for children is the most valuable calling of a married woman and requires accomplished abilities.  These are no small matters.  But mothers often say they could not stand to be with their children all day.  What?  Just stop and think about that sad sad statement.  If that is the case, why did they have children?  In choosing for our daughters, we may need to bring them to awareness of this attitude and direct them toward the single life or to that of a religious sister.

Remember. A woman was the first person to win a Nobel Prize in two different fields. And we live in a puzzling world where we see women become Prime Ministers and Climb Everest and even do such mundane things such as run businesses, hold down jobs and have careers but we would rather see women as rape victims and fragile flowers who need protecting.

They aren’t. Oh sure there are crimes specifically targetted at them more than others but let’s get this straight. Those are a symptom of us treating them as fragile flowers and of thinking like these Catholics.

Homeschooling Children requires no ability. No really. I think Homeschooling produces children who have little to no understanding of anything technical. I want my daughters to know how to hammer nails and titrate a solution and if needs be know what the insides of a person looks like.

  • A  woman needs to have something to provide income in case her husband dies, becomes disabled or leaves her.  True.  The first 2 issues can and should be resolved with insurance, which is very affordable for young couples who may be vulnerable to these VERY remote possibilities, which is why it is so affordable.  A responsible family will have such coverage in place.  As for the husband leaving her, the possibility of being left in such a state would make a woman MUCH more careful about the man she decides to marry.  Think about it.  If you know you’re throwing your COMPLETE trust and future on a man, you’ll want one you can certainly rely on.  

So life insurance is sufficient to live forever on? Disability costs a lot you know.

And if he leaves her? Well she should have picked better… Because you clearly can predict the future.

My uncle was a nice, smart man. A real catch when he married my aunt.

Until we found out 15 years later that he had beaten her (sorry! Disciplined her!) so badly her kidneys failed. And believe me, you need to beat someone pretty hard to break their kidneys.

She chose  “poorly”. She should have known he was a violent sociopath.

Except no one did. He was a charming man. I have “fond” memories of him myself. Fond until I found out what he did. Anyone can pretend to be nice until they turn out to be a complete monster.

That being said, here are the reasons to NOT send your daughter to college:

  1. She will attract the wrong types of men.  I share the common concern addressed to us, again mainly by angry women, that there are so many lazy men in our society.  But what mystifies me is why girls continue to marry them and then live to complain about them, along with their parents.  So what normally happens with this setup is that those lazy men who are looking for a mother-figure in a wife are very attracted to this responsible, organized, smart woman who has it all together along with a steady paying job with benefits.  So if he wants to go to work he can, but if not he can always fall back on her income.  Or if he “doesn’t want to have to answer to anyone” he can start his own business, and it doesn’t matter if it fails or succeeds or makes enough income because again she’s there to help. The bottom line, HE is only supplementing HER income, but he’s supposed to be the provider. These are very strong stresses on families that I have observed to consistently repeat themselves over and over.  What she did that was looked upon to be the “responsible thing ‘just in case’” ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy because of the type of man she married.

So if you get educated you may date a male gold digger…

As fears go that one’s pretty up there for “most stupid”. If you get educated you may get blinded by falling mortarboard. If you get educated you may get a papercut from your degree certificate that gets septic and you die. If you get educated you will have a real job and pay taxes. If you get educated you will have money and then you will have choice and it is so hard to pick between Samsung and Sony.

It also tries to imply that any man without a job is inherently lazy. Because people don’t get fired or businesses don’t go under.

The way I see it is this. If you are a total lump then the only sort of man who you can date is one who is inherently economically stable enough to care for you too. That’s like saying that you should be terrible at everything so that someone else does it for you.

  1. She will be in a near occasion of sin.  Just think of the environment that college-age students live in.  You have a heavy concentration of young people all living together without the supervision of parents at the most sexually charged state of life they will experience.  How can one expect that anyone would be able to avoid these temptations, even on a Catholic college campus much less a secular one?  So if it is unnecessary for one to be in a near occasion of sin, is it prudent to willingly put oneself there?  This is no small matter we’re dealing with here.  Is a degree worth the loss of your daughter’s purity, dignity, and soul?  Catholic OB-GYN Dr. Kim Hardey notes that a woman is naturally very observant of a man’s faults as long as she is in a platonic relationship with him.  Once she becomes sexually active with him, she releases hormones that mask his faults, and she remains in a dreamy state about him.  We can see why God would arrange things in such a way so that when in a proper state of holy matrimony, she would be less sensitive to his faults and thereby less tempted to be critical of him.  But before marriage she should be very sensitive to the complete reality of the man she will enter into a lifetime commitment with.  It is one thing to advise our daughter of this reality in ordinary situations, but placing her into an environment that will tempt her to lose this barrier is unfair to her.

If you fall in love with someone you ignore their faults? Really? I HAD NOT NOTICED! It’s why Tiga overlooks my many faults and it’s why I think she has no faults at all.

Don’t worry I speak fluent Catholic.

If your daughter goes to university she will be exposed to sex. And then she will be ruined for ever since no man will have her except for dudes in popped collars who think beer pong is a sport and listen to whatever the hell a Skrillex is rather than pick who you want.

They should remain stupid for their own good.

  1. She will not learn to be a wife and mother.  Nothing that is taught in a college curriculum is geared toward domestic homemaking.  On the contrary, it is training in a very masculine role of a professional career.  So there becomes a severe inner conflict in a woman when she starts trying to be a homemaker and juggle a career alongside it.  Often when a career woman discerns the possibility of giving up her career, she faces the reality that she has had no training in homemaking and often has the thought “What would I do at home all day.”  Stay-at-home mothers are actually very busy industrious women and do absolutely beautiful marvelous things.  Surely the business world severely undervalues those things they do, but the value to a family is beyond monetary compensation.  These abilities cannot be learned in any college.

Because it’s impossible to cook and clean and hold down a career at the same time.

Goodness knows how my SURGEON mother did it.

I have said this before but “staying at home is EASY”. You can call it busy and industrious all you like but honestly it’s not like standing up for 8 hour stretches and doing surgery.

No, do you know why we tell people that housework is hard? Because it is to justify the division of labour by tradition. If housework is treated as hard as a career then we won’t expect someone to hold down a career and do housework. It does not take you 8 hours a day to fix the house. Sure you may care for the kids but honestly there are parents who hold down careers and do that too. Yes, in some cases it is economically sensible to not go to work (Because of initial child care costs) but after a period child care costs drop.

So in order to justify the difficulty in work we add homeschooling. In short? These lot are making “Housework” to make it seem like women cannot have a career.

The average Creche cost in the UK is around £5.30 an hour. You earn around £7 an hour minimum wage. It may be cheaper to stay at home, but if you actually earn a decent wage £5.30 an hour is a rather small amount. Particularly considering it’s an outlay cost.

You may not realise it but kids learning to play is a part of growing up. Being with other kids in large groups helps kids develop socially. In fact part of the reason we treat autism in a big way is that in this day and age where many kids go to creches such a lack of development is easily seen. In short this cost gets your kids socialising away from you and learning the routine of school and learning to be less dependant on you.

The second thing is it keeps your hand in your career. Big gaps in career history are steps back. It’s why many mothers who are doctors chose to combine maternity leave with education for qualification exams. My mother did her surgical qualification exam during her maternity leave. I know a fair few who did that. She went straight back to work after a 9 month break. The cost of childcare was offset by keeping her skills sharp and laying further foundations for progress.

  1. The cost of a degree is becoming more difficult to recoup.  Like anything that is subsidized by the government, the cost of a college degree is inflated.  That being the case, it can often be difficult or impossible to get an adequate payoff for the investment.  The most common example of that scenario is the job of a school teacher.  More commonly now we’re seeing situations where not only is the income not enough to support a family, but many are strapped with student loan debt.  Add to that the possibility of not even being able to get a job with the degree and you have economic disaster for a family before they even get started.  It makes much more sense for a young couple to have a husband with a skill that brings value to the marketplace that has reasonable compensation to go along with it and a wife who is willing to be frugal especially during the early years of starting their family.

If you think women don’t earn anything then you would think of a degree as a waste of money rather than an investment. They don’t see women as workers so obviously education is a waste of money. Never mind the fact that she has skills that bring value to a marketplace for reasonable compensation and that both of them working would in fact mean more economic stability.

  1. You don’t have to prove anything to the world.  Often the reason for a girl going to college is the pressure of the society around her, including her parents.  The girl who graduates from college along with her parents gets the endless barrage of questions of “Where are you going to college?”  The society is so fixated with the feminist ideal of women having to have a job and provide an income to have worth.  So parents and their daughters often beam with pride in announcing what university she will attend.  Astonishingly even homeschool parents fall into this folly.  Often homeschooling parents feel they have to prove that they have done a good job in educating their children and are validated by them going to college.  But the confounding thing is that they went through all this effort to raise and educate their daughters themselves but don’t give their daughters the opportunity to do the same by locking her into a career.

How twisted and warped must you be to see economic freedom and agency as “a cruel punishment”.

  1. It could be a near occasion of sin for the parents.  In our culture many parents feel an unnecessary obligation to pay for the children’s college tuition.  Of course to aid in that there are a host of financial advisers who can set up college investment savings programs for which the government will grant tax favors.  So parents may avoid having more children with contraception, sterilization, or illicit use of NFP to bear this cost.  To assume that all of our children will need a college degree is quite a stretch, particularly for girls who will likely be mothers.

This just seems like  literature written to ensure poor people stay poor. What do you want education for? Education will make you use contraception! Have as many babies as you can and make sure they are poorly educated.

  1. She will regret it.  The more we talk about this prudent option for girls, the more we have women who are willing to admit to the regret they possess for having bought into the lie of the dual-career family.  A recent comment we received was “Too many of us females were sold a bill of bs in the ’60s. How wrong we were. Praying for wisdom for future mothers, fathers and families. JMJ+” We are not surprised that more and more women are coming forward to tell their stories of regret for having by-passed the more meaningful things in life to opt for the approval of feminists who cared nothing more about them than being statistics to reinforce their agenda.  All the while they regret neglecting their children and restricting their childbearing to such an extent that they don’t want to even think about it.  While we do receive some of our most violent rejection for this position, we receive just as many or more approvals for standing up for what is right and good.

To this date I have never heard anyone say “I regret that education and having freedom, what I really want to do is play house and trade economic freedom for constant pregnancy”.

All this is said as an explanation for our position on this issue, not to offend or condemn anyone who finds themselves in any of these situations.  But it is said because it is good and true and practicable.  It can be done even in our current society.  So the intent is for the good of families of the future.  We have to humbly give our children the best options and direction even if they don’t conform to the world’s norms and even if we have to humbly admit poor judgment and decisions on our parts.

God bless you+

And be not conformed to this world; but be reformed in the newness of your mind, that you may prove what the good is, and the acceptable, and the perfect will of God. (Rom 12:2)

 9/10/13 This just in, so that we don’t leave girls called to vocations out:

Best = Catholic + Victorian Morals

8.  It could interfere with a religious vocation.  According to Corey Huber, President of the Mater Ecclesiae Fund for Vocations, Catholic seminaries and religious orders do not accept candidates who have substantial unpaid debt. He states the average college loan debt today is a staggering $27,029 which takes most graudates a decade or more to pay off. 

No More Priests and Nuns?

So far so good then..

And then we ask ourselves why our young women have no economic independence and  no workplace skills.

Comments

  1. smrnda says

    “My personal impression is that the day-to-day grind of a job is below the dignity of women.”

    Well, poor women have had to work through pretty much all of history anyway; the whole ‘work/dignity’ freak-out only seems to come up when the possibility emerges of women getting jobs that require education. I suspect it’s less about women working (which was fine back when it was poor or dark skinned women working out in the fields) than about people who get scared once women start becoming doctors or engineers.

    The other issue is that I don’t think full time home-makers are particularly necessary most of the time, but owing to increasing costs, 2 incomes seem to be of greater benefit than having a parent full-time at home.

    “Keeping a home, being a loving wife, and being a nurturing mother are of immeasurable dignity to a woman and not something to be farmed out to servants.”

    First, keeping a home isn’t such a full time job anymore given all sorts of labor-saving technologies we can use. I also find the notion that the use of any non-Mom child care is *farming the job out to servants* is pretty disgusting as it pretty much dehumanizes child care workers, as if having a mother turn over care of a child to another responsible adult she trusts is somehow horrible. I’ve also seen too many 2 income families that were able to both have enough $ and give their kids enough time. 2 college educated professionals are going to be in better shape since college educated professionals get better benefits, and more flexibility in terms of hours. *Hoping* the man can make enough for the whole family where the woman isn’t educated isn’t going to work, and then if the woman *has* to work she’ll have worse options.

    I tend to find the promotion of ‘stay at home moms’ tends to be fairly classist – the idea is a man who needs a second income is somehow ‘lazy’ rather than just getting paid shit wages. I note that when religious people talk about issues of work, they completely ignore class issues as if everyone could just be upper middle class if they wanted to. It’s also just a way of slamming poor people because rich people don’t pay them more money and just making poor people’s marriages look bad.

    On college, it pretty much *is* one of the biggest factors in whether you’ll be poor or not, and an education beats any insurance policy.

  2. thascius says

    Even in the US, for most of our country’s history most wives did contribute economically to the household. Only the very wealthiest men could afford to support a wife who just stayed home and managed the house. It was only in the 50’s and 60’s that middle class wages rose high enough that middle class families could make it on one income. And with the decoupling of productivity and wages that began in the early 80’s and the stagnating or falling of most household income since then, most families can’t afford it now. #2 is right, this notion is completely classist and reflects the thinking of someone who has no idea how most families live. Sort of like McDonalds’ sample budget for their employees-which made no provision for food or transportation.

  3. says

    And be not conformed to this world; but be reformed in the newness of your mind, that you may prove what the good is, and the acceptable, and the perfect will of God. (Rom 12:2)

    I’m sure even non-Catholics don’t have any problem with not being conformed to the world of the Roman Empire in the 1st Century CE.

  4. Pen says

    And how posh must you be to need servants if you work? It’s 40 hours a week. 8 Hours a day. Let’s say 10 with commute. Another 8 hours gone for sleep leaves you WITH 6 hours to do whatever your heart desires! I have never taken more than 30 minutes to vacuum the house. It takes me 30 minutes to cook up a meal too. And I do laundry with the telly on so that’s about an hour. The kids? They do homework right? They play right? You don’t have to specifically engage them with all your unbending Catholic Concentration.

    Ha, ha. The reality of two adults working with two kids (assuming both in school full time, so both over age 5) with all the admin and housework that running such a home entails is that maybe (though not likely) you’ll get 8 hours a night of sleep, and no time to do what you want whatsoever. Maybe one day you will see. It will blow your mind how much difference there is between family life and living as a single adult, how that housework and miscellaneous admin multiplies exponentially, how your ‘spare’ time becomes wrapped around supporting the life of your family members and time with them (you know, taking them to football and watching them play it, that sort of thing) as opposed to ‘doing what you want’.

    There’s nothing wrong with taking down this bizarre argument about women staying at home, but some of the ways you’re doing it need a massive reality check because we have real, serious problems with the more egalitarian approach. Have you thought that to do that 40 hour job with one hour commute (10 hours a day) your child needs to spend 11 hours in the childcare arrangement (obviously, at some point you start to wonder, why have the kids in the first place – that’s why people aren’t)? Do you know how to cope with 6-9 year olds who get out of school at 3.30pm when the parents don’t get home until 6.00? Do you really believe this scenario meets the developmental and affective needs of ages 0-10+ adequately? Do you know what to do with them when they get sick or during their rather frequent school holidays? Do you realise that when two adults have careers that call for them to go away on business trips at short notice (very common) at least one of them is going to be forced to give up that career and adopt a ‘pin money’ job? Do you have any idea how many people in Britain are relying on unpaid granny power, because two adults with a career and maintaining a family just is not realistic under current professional and educational conditions?

    Nah, the real problem with the religious right’s argument isn’t that they’re wrong about the work involved in running a household and family. Realistically, a couple with pre-teen children can expect to run one career and one part-time ‘pin money’ type job (or homeschool instead) and just about keep all the relationships and household admin involved ticking over. Their fault is in the assumption that the woman will give up work rather than the man, along with the assumption that the situation goes on for ever, along with a failure to demand a society which facilitates more egalitarian and family-friendly structures.

  5. mildlymagnificent says

    Realistically, a couple with pre-teen children can expect to run one career and one part-time ‘pin money’ type job (or homeschool instead) and just about keep all the relationships and household admin involved ticking over.

    I can see how this happens in families where both parents have full time jobs with inflexible, family unfriendly hours and both have an hour or more’s commute each way. Some people organise it with their jobs having entirely different shift times, so the kids always have one parent but rarely both for company on work days. But my husband and I managed two fulltime jobs with flexible hours allowing one to start work at 7.30am and the other to finish at 6 pm. Plenty of people I know with longer commuting times enrol their children in schools/ childcare which are closer to work than home, or at least equidistant, so part of the commute time is also family chatting about their day time. Even if it’s not ideal, you can eke out an hour or so per day of “being there” time even if it’s not “quality” time.

    As for sport, music, gym, dance, drama activities – we managed all that as well, though not all of them every year. We were always fairly tired by the end of the week, but parents usually are anyway. And, I might add, we always had home-cooked meals on the table at regular times and we often had home made bread and our own pickles and preserves. It can be done with organisation and being willing to leave washing, dishwashing and other household machines running when you’re out of the house or overnight. These are the modern equivalent of servants, getting stuff done _and_ doing it while you’re not there.

  6. ysoldeangelique says

    @mildlymagnificent #6

    I absolutely agree I have three children and a co-wife we seem more than capable of all these things as well. It’s almost as if proper planning and organizzation along with some weekend chores works.

  7. Ysanne says

    Even if it’s not ideal, you can eke out an hour or so per day of “being there” time even if it’s not “quality” time.

    Seriously?
    Go through all the bother of being pregnant, popping out kids, wrecking your nights while they’re very young, and doing all the extra housework and admin necessary to keep kids alive, fed & reasonably educated, to spend one measly hour per day with them? Whereas spending 8+ hours at work is fine and unquestionable? Seriously, that’s just fucked up.
    Why do we just accept that taking the “women does childrearing and housework, man is away for most of waking hours and stays out of kids’ lives” family model’s male role and assigning it to both parents is a suitable new way to run a family? What about scaling down the whole work aspect for a while? Making that possible financially is what’s sorely lacking in most cases, so that needs to be changed.

  8. Onamission5 says

    Once again you attempt to stand up for women (good thing!) by shitting all over those women who don’t fit your narrow criteria of worth (bad thing).

    This feeling I am having right now really sucks.

  9. methuseus says

    I have to agree that you’re not really looking at it necessarily in the best way. Being a family with two children is very different from being a couple with no children. The work does multiply. Between that and average costs for child care, my family wouldn’t work very well with us paying for childcare. The break-even point for having a second income is well above minimum wage at 40 hours a week these days, at least in the USA. There are plenty of reasons for women to not want a college education, though pretty much all the ones covered by this group are ridiculous. It is also easier for a woman to come back to the work force after having a few years off for being a stay at home mother for the younger children. If a man tries it, it generally doesn’t work well. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with a stay at home dad; our society just frowns on it in the same way it frowns on women being engineers and so forth.

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