Sep 01 2013

A Voice for Me – Big Mistake

Whaddaya know, a second FTB blogger is currently being accused of sexual assault.

He, too has a handy-dandy excuse. As feminists, we must believe accusers. Surely, something must be behind this.

But in any case, we shouldn’t make too much of his excuse. Let’s remember this quote from an eminent feminist:

If you are unaware, everyone’s favourite band of rape apologists and individuals who’s list of causes supported include the status quo of India and Afghanistan which are both in the worst 5 places to be a woman. From their list of experts who have claimed that free disco access more than makes up for India’s massive problem with sexual assault and forced sex and a complete lack of development of anything approaching a consent culture.

The Afghanistan thing was just puzzling in my opinion. You may as well have claimed that Chris Brown is a great feminist for all the sense that article made.

But AVfM have weighed in on the multiple fake accusations going around FTB members. And look! I get a mention!

Isn’t that sweet? No? It’s certainly something after all.

So MRAs coming to read this? Here’s a lesson in  what we consider libel.

Paul Elam is fully aware that I have shot down these rumours not once but twice. I have to repeat this here. My “handy dandy excuse” is my  passport. You see in order to travel the world there is a universal system of little books that allows you to claim certain rights and benefits of travel by using it as a form of Internationally recognised ID. This gets stamped when you travel into and out of countries except the one of your own home residence.

Mine says that I am a subject of Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. I am a Brit. A Limey. Like Dr. Who, Mr. Bean and the Queen.

And my travel documents for the ENTIRE year state that I have travelled between India and the UK. In fact for the past 5 years I have only travelled between the UK and India with flight changes in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and once in Frankfurt.

Now I am not strong on geography but I am pretty sure the USA is nowhere near these places although you wouldn’t know it in the Middle East.

This is not an excuse, this is a statement of empirical proof.

Your statement however was done in poor intention and after it was repeatedly clarified. And your comments about rape accusations that were fake?

Karma is a Bitch – Paul Elam

Psst. Karma doesn’t work that way. If Karma had anything to do with it, you would have to spend your next life as an Afghani woman and remember all of your “bitching” about them having it easy. That would be Karma.

No. I am afraid you picked on some fake accusations made by  some  people who literally think that any rape victim is probably making it up.

See the thing is Mr. Elam the only real people to bring it up were a group of anti-FTB people who thought it would be amusing. Never mind the damage. Unfortunately since I got that cleared up, my kicking boots are on.

What sort of person would do this?

Well. Dr. Myers is a trustworthy fellow. He has a lot riding on his trustworthiness. His blog has hundreds of thousands of readers. He is liked by  many  and has a career. He put all of that on the line for a friend whom he trusts.

Me and Jason got anonymous messages from disposable emails or random string emails. It wasn’t a “I have this story and this proof” it was literally a bile filed letter claiming I raped someone despite being half the world away. The problem with this accusation was that I was nowhere near the scene of the crime. Not even in the same country. In fact half the world away. I was as far away as humanly possible without becoming an astronaut.

These were brought up by people who think “Ho Ho Ho! Let’s Poison The Welll”. If we accuse them they will back down! Let’s threaten their reputations. Which is no problem for Mr. Elam since we all know what his reputation really is.

And yes it’s satire. But it isn’t very good. See? Satire would be me sitting on a throne made of naked women complaining about how oppressed I am because the throne is uncomfortable with a gigantic banner with A Voice for Me written on the back.

See, the MRA dialogue is so poisonous that despite perched at the very acme of society, they will honestly believe that their lives are horrid and entrenched in suffering. It is a selfish world.

No one is saying that you should analyse rapes properly and prosecute them according to evidence. The MRA think it’s a witch hunt but then again the MRA think some very absurd things about consent.

No what ensues is muck raking. Are you sure FTB’s Lousy Canuck is a good guy? He says he is but no smoke without fire?

Are you sure Greta Christina is not a secret Badger Poker? I hear she pokes badgers… with spoons. On Thursdays.

See you can claim anything, but if you make the claim you are going to have to back it up. I am willing to back up my alibi. I chose not to do so as I am an anonymous blogger behind a wall that protects me from the harassment and abuse and death threats and actual death that has plagued Indian skeptics and atheists. Taslima hides behind bodyguards for a good reason. Sanal is an another country and Narendra died last week to an assassin.

I value my anonymity. But I pointed this out since people here know what I do and where I am here. People know the claim is totally fake.

So what has it done? It’s just hammered home the absolute lack of moral standards of the anti-FTB (who basically hate anything here) which is like stating that you dislike me  because you hate the brand of the Soap Box I stand on and confirms the hateful ethics of the MRA who cackle in glee at fake rape accusations aimed at us.

As I said.

You aren’t fighting for the rights of men but for the restoration of the status quo.

And making it harder for women to come forward with cases of rape or abuse.


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  1. 1
    Ace of Sevens

    The bad math really gets on my nerves, almost s much as the libel and rape apologetics. They seem to be operating on the idea that an accusation is false 6% of the time, so the chance of three accusations all being false is .0216%, or just over one in 5,000. Statistics don’t work that way. For one, the 6% figure is for only accusations reported to the police in the US and measures ones and unfounded isn’t the same as false. Plus, part of that is police cooking the stats. Also, you can only use the general chances if you know know nothing about the accusation except that it happened. And the events have to be independent, which they clearly aren’t.

    The thing is, the people making the accusations know this, or at least most of it. They are trying to argue that you don’t know this. To be fair, I have seen people make bad arguments that place a lot more significance of the 6% figure than it deserves, but it’s not like social justice people are generally clueless about math. Even if they were, accusing people of rape in bad faith is not an acceptable way of demonstrating logical fallacies.

    The meme I keep hearing about this is that it’s OK because they were making a point. Like hell it is. It’s like burning down your neighbor’s house because they wouldn’t believe you when you said their fire protection system was inadequate. The people spreading these lies are indifferent to any harm they cause to you you or PZ or Jason or whoever, so long as people have to admit they are right. Once they beat the feminists, perhaps their next project will be to go after the stereotype that atheists are smug, amoral assholes.

  2. 2

    And making it harder for women to come forward with cases of rape or abuse.

    I don’t doubt for a second that that is exactly what he wants.

    That and to do everything he can to make men afraid to be feminists or any kind of ally to women. I think our male allies are the only people he despises more than women.

  3. 3
    Al Dente

    I think our male allies are the only people he despises more than women.

    Of course he despises feminist men. We’re gender traitors, refusing to accept our god-given natural superiority over non-penis havers. Some of us even think women are actually humans, an obvious blasphemy.

  4. 4

    “As feminists, we must believe accusers”

    HAHAHAHAHA! Even there is no evidence? Thanks for admitting feminists are NOT skeptics or scientists.

  5. 5

    Even *if* there is no evidence

  6. 6
    Psychopomp Gecko

    Prodegtion, if you open your mind too much, your brain might fall out.

  7. 7

    I had heard the original confusion came from a misinterpretation of a sarcastic statement you had made saying you had been accused, that was wrongly retweeted, or reposted a week or so later by Oolon.

    Is that not the case?

  8. 8
    Ace of Sevens

    @prodegtion: You seem to be interpreting that as “We must always believe all accusations, no matter what.” That’s not what it says.

  9. 9

    There is a post talking about how easy a fake rape allegation is to make, but how hard it is for real rape allegations to come forward. I spoke about what a forensic rape investigation is like from the Medical officer standpoint and gave a reason as to why so few rapes are prosecuted (If the rapist leaves no sperm, there is little evidence to link him to the crime and the case becomes weaker). Our system works on reasonable doubt, not the whims of the Judge, Jury and Executioner.

    Then a few weeks after that, I was accused of rape via email at TAM 2013. I responded publically denying ever even being at any TAM let alone 2013. I also pointed out I was in a different nation and that I hadn’t been to the USA in nearly a decade.

    And at this point, I realised that multiple other accusations were made. And if it became a major accusation in public I would be investigated a lot more harshly. So I told work. I knew I was innocent and that I had an alibi that is as solid as it gets but I still had to go through the stressful procedures that resulted in lower work rates and not being allowed to work on certain aspects of my job. That is without the personal stress it caused.

    I actually kept quiet until the #FTBullies thread broke out in a fit of naming the accused. I pointed out the effect it had and I pointed out that I had defended myself and to keep making the accusation is slanderous. Then pointed out the cost paid for it.

    Oolon reads the damn blog, and he used the term falsely correctly. The people who were tweeting used “inverted comas” and everyone knows when you use the air quotes you are being sarcastic about it. It’s not confusion, it’s a malicious rumour. At best it will silence someone critical of MRAs and at worst it was to make it harder for women to actually come forward.

  10. 10

    @8 We must listen to accusations and then look at the evidence. It’s difficult but that’s the best we can do without it degenerating into a genuine witch hunt where anyone can accuse and try people for being a rapist at whim.

  11. 11

    Even *if* there is no evidence

    I didn’t ask my friend for proof that she had cancer. Should I have?

  12. 12

    @11 leni

    WARNING: What I’m about to type is pretty indistinguishable from actual MRA views but it is, despite appearances to the contrary, sarcasm:

    Ahh but the difference, you see, is that rape doesn’t actually ever happen so it’s an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence. And since most of the people who make rape accusations are women, and thus not really people, their testimony doesn’t count as evidence. Plus bitchez be lying sluts anyway, so it’s not like they didn’t deserve it to begin with. QED.

    /end sarcasm

  13. 13

    @12 piegasm,

    Well, that’s the beauty of rape culture isn’t it? I’ve actually engaged some of those people on the Grenade thread an over at Jason’s place and described my own rape. Interestingly enough, as a pseudo/anonymous straight cis male describing my own rape at the hands (well, mouth) of another straight cis male (a thing which according to them never ever happens), I’ve never had them attack the veracity of my claim. Details and culpability, yes, but the ultimate fact of the claim, that I had been sexually assaulted, no. Funny, isn’t it?

  14. 14
    Matthew White

    prodegtion – I’m sorry I have to actually explain this, but the ‘as feminists, we must believe accusers’ tweet is meant sarcastically, made by someone who is not a feminist and is using an absurd strawman as a premise in his bad argument.

  15. 15


    Oh really? It’s so hard to tell. But that’s Poe’s law, I guess.

  16. 16

    Regarding the false rape accusation:

    Old Maxim: It’s easier to tell the lie than it is to refute it.

    Corollary: It’s easier to believe the lie than it is to question it.

    Tha’ts especially the case when some want the lie to be true (i.e. the MRA idiots who want to legalize rape, racists, etc.). Why let the facts get in the way of a cheap shot or cheap political points?


  17. 17
    Matthew White

    @15 I’ve heard some quite horrendous things from Radical Feminists (and I use that term quite specifically), but interestingly, ‘all rape allegations are true’ is (personally) not one of them. Given that I’ve read a lot from feminists, and the type of RadFems I’m referring to are a minuscule minority (you could easily read a lot of feminist writing and never come across the horrendous stuff to which I am referring), I have to wonder how much this caraciture of feminists which one comes across is based on the actual words of these RadFems (who are then taken to represent all feminists), or on the words of the more common feminists (who tend to promote ideas which are often in conflict with the RadFems), words which are then grossly misinterpreted, either intentionally or unintentionally, perhaps hyperbolically, by people who are perhaps sincere, or who actually have no interest in dealing with the issues raised by these feminists.

  18. 18

    the absolute lack of moral standards of the anti-FTB (who basically hate anything here)

    You know… you had my sympathy until you said this shit above.

    (1) You keep on ignoring that the origin of the false rape-allegation is found HERE on FTB…

    (2) You smear on people, solely based on guilt-by-not-even-association… or do you really believe that anyone who despises the FTB style of bullying has a complete lack of morals ? If so, go see a mental health counsellor.

    See, the MRA dialogue is so poisonous

    Ok, at least you’re not playing hide-the-ball.

    You think that people fighting for mens’ and boys’ rights is an intrinsically bad thing. I don’t know if you’re just a simple misandrist or a brick-up-the-ass radical feminist and frankly, I don’t care. You’re a misanthrope. You deserve no sympathy. From anyone.

    Oh btw…
    Why I mention she was a feminist – gives you a nice little insight on the rapist mindset of female feminists…

  19. 19

    No Tiberiusb, the know that MRAs really don’t do anything to help men or boys and in fact get in the way of people who do. You’re either allowing your bigotry to confuse you or you don’t care whether or not what you write is true.

    “…rapist mindset of female feminists”

    You’re just brimming with bs.

  20. 20

    It should be noted that when prodegtion says “evidence” what he means is DNA evidence or a video/audio record of the rape. Just to be clear and all.

  21. 21


    Ahh but the difference, you see, is that rape doesn’t actually ever happen so it’s an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence. And since most of the people who make rape accusations are women, and thus not really people, their testimony doesn’t count as evidence. Plus bitchez be lying sluts anyway, so it’s not like they didn’t deserve it to begin with. QED.

    Well, you didn’t mention the alpha male cock carousel so I probably would have noticed the sarcasm, but thanks for the warning :D


    As an aside, I know two people who have faked cancer. And only 4 people who have actually had it, not including my future self.

    That’s like 33.33 repeating 3% false claims in my personal experience, and I will still believe someone who tells me they have cancer. Because I understand that people who have cancer are a lot more common than people who pretend to, even if my personal experience does not agree with that reality.

    And also because I don’t want to be the kind of person who points to those two fakers as an excuse to treat actual cancer victims like shit. Cause that would make me an asshole. Or at least a bigger asshole than I’d like to be.

  22. 22

    Quite apart from all of the MRA rhetoric, when I hear feminists claim that “the MRA does nothing for men’s rights” I just have to scratch my head.

    The MRA and MRM don’t just go around hating on feminism 100% of the time. They also fight for a father’s custody rights (when the father would be a better choice than the mother), talk about fathers and sons and male role models, and discuss risks/responsibilities for men who choose to get married.

    In my view, there’s little difference between the MRM and radical feminism (hold on, let me finish). Both address gender-specific problems, both movements are full of people who actively hate the opposite sex AND people who don’t hate the opposite sex and are quite reasonable in most ways.

    I think the difference for most people is most see women as a generally more disadvantaged group, and therefore the hatred directed at men which comes out of radical feminism is given more of a pass than the hatred that comes from the MRAs directed at women.

    I learned long ago to ignore ideological rhetoric from any movement, and listen to what they actually want to do. So yeah, I do hear MRAs talk about things they want to change. And some of the things they want to change are things feminists want to change too, feminists just believe those problems are a result of patriarchy (I’m thinking of stay-at-home dad stigma and divorce court). But they both agree it’s a problem they want to fix.

  23. 23
    Ace of Sevens

    @22: Do you have specific examples of providing assistance to men who were being screwed by the system or lobbying for policy change as opposed to complaining, posting signs that complain, but aren’t really pushing for any action except more complaining and protests, which similarly propose nothing?

  24. 24

    Sorry (not sorry) but, no. You know who does push for men to be seen as being just as able to be primary caregivers as women? Feminists. MRAs are no different from white supremacists. They are just as hateful and just as dishonest.

  25. 25

    @22-You may be right that there’s little difference between MRA’s and the extremes of radical feminism, but the radfems are extreme outliers in feminism. The MRA’s are the mainstream of the men’s rights movement. And there are plenty of mainstream feminists (including the bloggers at FtB) who do reject and condemn the radfems. Any high profile men’s rights activists who reject and condemn Paul Elam, AVfM and the rest? If there are, I haven’t heard of them.
    “They also fight for a father’s custody rights (when the father would be a better choice than the mother), talk about fathers and sons and male role models, and discuss risks/responsibilities for men who choose to get married.” From what I’ve seen they tend to assume the father would be a better choice than the mother regardless of what the actual facts are and that men always get screwed by the courts. That probably happens sometimes, but I’ve seen women get screwed by the courts, too. As for discussing risks/responsibilities of marriage that sounds like a good idea, but what I’ve seen of their writings on the subject suggests that women get all the rights and men get all the responsibilities. Maybe there are responsible MRA’s giving reasonable advice, but I haven’t seen them.
    “And some of the things they want to change are things feminists want to change too, feminists just believe those problems are a result of patriarchy (I’m thinking of stay-at-home dad stigma and divorce court). But they both agree it’s a problem they want to fix.” Patriarchy is generally used as a short-hand for traditional sex roles which do exist and in most cases do favor men over women, and even where they seem to favor women it’s usually in a backhanded way-a woman can stay at home while her husband supports her but that’s because men are so much more capable than women and better able to support a family, women don’t have to fight in war, but it’s because they’re so frail and delicate and unable to defend themselves. (One of the articles I recall from AVfM was about how terrible it is women will be allowed in combat, even as MRA’s elsewhere are complaining that it’s a privilege for women to be excluded from combat.) Women’s lives have traditionally been more valued than men’s lives, but that was because women were more valuable TO MEN. They were objects to be possessed, not individuals with agency and free choices of their own. Other men were competition, temporary allies at best, when not active rivals. Much better for the surviving men if as few men and as many women as possible survive a disaster. Under traditional sex roles women ARE more disadvantaged than men. Just as traditional race roles disadvantaged non-whites more than whites, traditional attitudes toward sexual orientation disadvantaged homosexuals more than heterosexuals, traditional attitudes toward religion disadvantaged non-Christians more than Christians, I could go on. The MRA’s I’ve seen and read seem more interested in keeping women down than overcoming sexism. And, more infuriatingly, far more interested in defending men who are accused of sexual assault than in advocating for men who are victims of sexual assault.

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