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Aug 29 2013

I Get Mail – A Quickee

Uh I post on the Slymepit sometimes and I’d never heard of you, nor do I have any idea who Richard Sanderson is, nor have I ever claimed that “FTBers are slacktivists”.

However a variety of members of the Slymepit have.

In fact I came over recently to read a few posts. A fair few like discussing “REAL” activism. It is one of the reason the Slymepit have in general left me alone apart from the faux pas by the few who don’t know what I do.

To your peers, a slacktivist is just someone who writes about a topic. Because I actually do “real social justice”.

…… However, what happened to you was reprehensible and you have my sympathy. I’m just perplexed as to how it somehow supposedly has anything to do with me.

Have you read the forum that you are part of?

Let’s see. You got Pitchguest trying to convince people that my rape accusation was not malicious but a stunt to demonstrate the callous nature and ease by which fake accusations go through while ignoring the very real difficulties it caused.

You have deniers of such accusations in your midst and the only reason there aren’t more in that thread is because this caused “Real Damage” to someone who actually was helping women. In short? The little object lesson backfired by actively harming women.

You can’t stop Child Birth, women who would have delivered at hands of doctors delivered in the hands of untrained midwives who are for emergency deliveries we cannot cover rather than for these. Some of those were difficult. Only time will tell us of the damage caused.

It nearly cost me my job and my career. So people who think FTB are filled with evil bitch feminists who hate men and their man parts could mock PZ.

And this sort of thinking is part of the Slymepit.

Okay just look at this way. A bit ago there were Individuals mocking Taslima Nasrin for being a professional victim and not speaking well. You mean like Jessica Ahlquist? Or are only young white ladies allowed to be “victimised by religion” and speak about it?

To explain the level of difference? Taslima has a religious fatwa on her head for her death set at an amount of money that’s frankly obscene and has had people attempt to kill her. And the Slymepitter was mocking her English. Question? I bet she speaks English better than his Bengali.

The Slyme’s done things like that. Tasteless and mildly hurtful things that allow majorly hurtful things to slide through and then to cover it up.

The condemnation of the actions of the Accusers is only taking place because the Slyme think that the joke’s gone “too far”. They had no problems with the #FTBully thread people and often laughed at their antics until it goes too far  then it’s tutting and shaking of heads.

The faux rape campaign  and all who participated in it have actually harmed real physical women who don’t have access to proper healthcare. The people who sat around gleefully cataloguing other false rapes are part of it.

 

93 comments

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  1. 1
    axelblaster

    yes, we can all agree that false rape accusations have collateral damage.

  2. 2
    axelblaster

    yes, we can all agree that false rape accusations will cause collateral damage.

  3. 3
    axelblaster

    Sorry about the repeats, Avicenna.

  4. 4
    TaylorMaid

    I’m often confused by these people who say they read/post at the Slymepit and that it isn’t what others make it out to be because there are forums and posts that aren’t vitriolic or even related to FTB and their network of feminist conspirators. But to me that’s like saying you read at white supremacist websites because there are good political analyses and hunting tips. You still contribute traffic to a hate site, and unless you are there calling out the nastiness you claim to be no part of, your complacency equals complicity.

  5. 5
    ...

    “It nearly cost me my job and my career.”

    Significant question: what do you think Myers accusation was intended to Shermer?

    I don’t think you’ve bothered to come out in defence of all the standards you say you’d like to see in place to defend you to defend Shermer…

    …and you’re really surprised that when you lie down with the dogs you get fleas?

    It was screamingly obvious from the start that as soon as Myers started pulling this guff, sooner or later someone would repay FTB in its own coin. Are you really that naive that you didn’t see it coming? Or did you decide it wasn’t important when it wasn’t happening to you?

    I respect the work you do; I think it’s admirable – but that doesn’t change thing. When you lie down with the dogs, you get fleas. It really is that simple.

  6. 6
    WithinThisMind

    And look, more pitters that don’t get the difference between accusing a guilty person with the information available and making something up entirely to accuse an innocent person.

  7. 7
    ...

    #WithinthisMind

    What information? What guilt?

    You are the ones who opened this door. You started it. “Live by the anonymous, factless rape accusation – de by the anonymous, factless rape accusation”

    When a lot of people pointed out that we have presumption of innocence and a justice system FOR A REASON, so many here howled their heads off that that was just “defending rapists” and all the rest of it.

    Well, now you’ve got what you asked for. Hope you like it.

  8. 8
    kimbeaux

    @5 Really? You are seriously going to equate a credible rape accusation from a known unnamed–not anonymous–source with a proven false, malicious accusation from an actually anonymous source?

    You seriously argue that you think it’s fair and just to attack Thomas because Bob said something you don’t like?

    You are untroubled by malicious, false accusations that deprived women of greatly needed doctor’s care because of your offense with someone else entirely? Well, thanks for rapesplaining that to me, because I never would have gone there.

  9. 9
    ...

    You claim it is credible from a credible source. What evidence do you provide to me that that is so? None.

    The mud you lot slung wasn’t exactly fair and just from where I stand. Now you wail to the skies that it has rebounded.

    Oh, I am very much troubled by “malicious, false accusations” – where did they start? Who set this ball in motion? You cast burning matches about you and you are surprised that you are in an inferno?

    You should have thought of all of this before.

  10. 10
    SallyStrange

    It was screamingly obvious from the start that as soon as Myers started pulling this guff, sooner or later someone would repay FTB in its own coin.

    No, it wasn’t. To me, fabricating a rape accusation is a not an obvious response to seeing something you believe is a fabricated rape accusation.

    If you think it was made up, you say so.

    You don’t make up yet another rape accusation to “make a point.”

    Only sociopaths think that’s a rational course of action.

  11. 11
    skasowitz

    … @7

    Nothing you say has not been addressed elsewhere, so I’ll assume this is the first thread you’ve seen related to the topic.

    You seem to be confusing someone being unnamed with being anonymous. Shermer’s accuser is anonymous to you, Avicenna’s accuser existed only in the accusations crafted by obscenely reckless cowards. You may choose to ignore facts presented by PZ or others, but that does not render the accusation factless. You likely dismiss first-hand accounts as hearsay and embrace whatever other misinformation you’ve absorbed from the Slyme. None of this has any impact on reality. The reality is that what happened to Avicenna was purely mistargeted retaliation for the grenade post.

    PZ Myers is not a judge or magistrate, and his blog is not yet recognized as a court in the US’s judicial branch. Presumption of innocence, the right to face one’s accuser, and whatever ctrl-c + ctrl-v you have queued up is not in effect.

    Your final sentiment is simply repulsive.

  12. 12
    ...

    Yes, yes, yes – “It’s all right when WE do it! How dare anyone retaliate in kind?”

    You have got what you’ve been asking for – now you get to live with it.

    After all

    “Shermer’s accuser existed only in the accusations crafted by obscenely reckless cowards”

    Could not have phrased it better myself.

    This is pathetic. It really is. You dish it out but can’t take it. You pretend you’re being the big, strong warriors of feminism and women’s rights and you collapse to pathetic wailing at the least, and most obvious response.

    You should have thought of all that before.

  13. 13
    ...

    “[Avicenna's accuser] is not a judge or magistrate, and his blog is not yet recognized as a court in the US’s judicial branch. Presumption of innocence, the right to face one’s accuser, and whatever ctrl-c + ctrl-v you have queued up is not in effect.”

    Well, there you are then.

    Either clean up your own mess or Man. The. Fuck. Up. You don’t get to start something like this and then look all hurt and droopy eyed when the obvious happens.

  14. 14
    Anthony K

    You should have thought of all of this before.

    When I brought up the issue of doxxing, I was told by members of the Slymepit that two wrongs don’t make a right. Now tit for tat is an acceptable strategy.

    Check your own hide for fleas.

    Either clean up your own mess or Man. The. Fuck. Up. You don’t get to start something like this and then look all hurt and droopy eyed when the obvious happens.

    Like when @elevatorgate whines about using a ‘nym to protect himself from ‘harassment’?

    Fuck right off.

  15. 15
    ...

    Deep thinking, to be sure. Very deep thinking.

  16. 16
    Jacob Schmidt

    Significant question: what do you think Myers accusation was intended to Shermer?

    You can go read it, if you want. Its literally nothing but a signal boost; a warning. But that’s only if you don’t want to make up motives.

    …and you’re really surprised that when you lie down with the dogs you get fleas?

    So FtB made the accusation? You don’t know how metaphors work, do you?

    Are you really that naive that you didn’t see it coming? Or did you decide it wasn’t important when it wasn’t happening to you?

    Naw, I saw it coming. Assholes making false accusations to discredit accusations altogether is pretty predictable. Still absolutely disgusting.

    When a lot of people pointed out that we have presumption of innocence and a justice system FOR A REASON…

    You’ll note that Shermer is not in prison, nor has he faced any legal consequence.

    You claim it is credible from a credible source. What evidence do you provide to me that that is so? None.

    Well, this source is a specific person it can be tracked to, if need be. There’s also the fact that Shermer had already established a reputation as someone to avoid. What are we up to now, 5 accusations, plus at least one sexual harrassment?

    You should have thought of all of this before.

    What’s amusing is that you think we’re responsible for the actions of others.

  17. 17
    Anthony K

    You don’t get to start something like this and then look all hurt and droopy eyed when the obvious happens

    He’s right, Avicenna. I mean, really, you should have known that any perceived slight against a skeptical ‘hero’ would be repaid with a complete lack of ethics and accountability. These aren’t normal, healthy, functional people we’re dealing with. They’re absolute obsessive scum. We should not have been surprised.

  18. 18
    ...

    I have no brief for elevatorgate – but it’s you who have been slinging every kind of filth and smear. Now it’s all coming back.

    Whatever happened to the big, brave, unbowed, unstoppable figure of Atheism Plus, anyway? Wasn’t it the next wave, the great thing? If you are brought low by a simple bit of return fire – what was the point of you in the first place?

  19. 19
    Loud - warm smiles do not make you welcome here

    @ #13

    Great that you’re here defending an obvious and harmful false rape accusation, and not only that, but crowing about it. You’re really showing your colours as an odious piece of trash.

  20. 20
    ...

    “Well, this source is a specific person it can be tracked to, if need be. There’s also the fact that Shermer had already established a reputation as someone to avoid. What are we up to now, 5 accusations, plus at least one sexual harrassment?”

    Riiiight…. Care to guess just how quickly a much, much larger group of accusations could be put against Avicenna and Myers and many others?

    Poor little things. Can’t take the heat when it comes back your way.

  21. 21
    Jacob Schmidt

    You don’t get to start something like this and then look all hurt and droopy eyed when the obvious happens.

    Do you know Shermer to be innocent? No? Then how can you claim they are comparable?

  22. 22
    skasowitz

    Whatever happened to the big, brave, unbowed, unstoppable figure of Atheism Plus, anyway? Wasn’t it the next wave, the great thing? If you are brought low by a simple bit of return fire – what was the point of you in the first place?

    Do you have any idea whose blog you are posting on right now?

  23. 23
    ...

    @19 Oh dear. I guess I will just curl up and wither away. How can I possibly take your hurtful and mean words!

    Seriously, is that the best you’ve got?

    And your reading comprehension is limited – if you pay careful attention, you will see that I am attacking two false accusations. I just think it is a bit much for the circulators of A to get huffy about B.

  24. 24
    Jacob Schmidt

    Care to guess just how quickly a much, much larger group of accusations could be put against Avicenna and Myers and many others?

    Rather quickly, I’d imagine. Your point?

  25. 25
    ...

    “Do you know Shermer to be innocent? No?”

    I know it in the same way I knew that this was a bogus accusation towards Avicenna before it was admitted to be so.

  26. 26
    Anthony K

    I have no brief for elevatorgate – but it’s you who have been slinging every kind of filth and smear.

    EVIDENCE, MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT?

    C’mon, legal beagle: support your fucking accusations with some fucking facts.

  27. 27
    ...

    @24, My point, Jacob, is that anonymous accusations from obviously malevolent and malicious sources are worth exactly nothing.

  28. 28
    leni

    @ Sally Strange, it was obvious to me, I’m just surprised it was Avicenna. I thought it would be PZ. Maybe Richard Carrier or Jason Thibeault. I would also be surprised if attempts to hack PZ have not already been made.

    @skasowitz- Remember, one of Shermer’s accusers is anonymous. The second isn’t.

    ***
    One of the things that’s so infuriating about this is the “See! False rape accusations are bad!”, as if anyone said they weren’t. Despite being malicious and despite the target being an absurd choice, it relies on an assumption that’s trivially false. No one that blogs here thinks false accusations are fine and dandy. Probably someone somewhere in the world thinks so, but not anyone here.

    So all this bullshit was to make a point that pretty much no one disagrees with. Well done, anonymous idiots, well done.

  29. 29
    Jacob Schmidt

    I know it in the same way I knew that this was a bogus accusation towards Avicenna before it was admitted to be so.

    Assumptions, then.

    (I know the accusation against Avicenna is not credible because Avicenna isn’t in the country. Shermer’s accusation is, at least, possible.)

  30. 30
    SallyStrange

    Care to guess just how quickly a much, much larger group of accusations could be put against Avicenna and Myers and many others?

    I’m sure, since you are so strongly opposed to false accusations, that you won’t try to demonstrate this directly, because that would be unethical. And of course you would quickly denounce any such efforts.

    …oh.

  31. 31
    ...

    leni

    “One of the things that’s so infuriating about this is the “See! False rape accusations are bad!”, as if anyone said they weren’t”

    Tell Myers that?

  32. 32
    kimbeaux

    @12
    Avicenna proved the slymepit accusation was false. You have not proven that the accusation from PZ’s unnamed source was false. Nor have you proven that it is not credible. (Hint: Your offense is not proof.)

    Equally, you have not (successfully) defended attacking someone else entirely for the blog that offended you in the first place, nor justified the harm caused by this malicious, false accusation to women completely unrelated to PZ, or even the FTB community.

    Your stance is untenable, and maintaining it makes you look malicious, moronic and petty.

  33. 33
    ...

    @Sally – silly little girl, of course I would.

  34. 34
    SallyStrange

    anonymous accusations from obviously malevolent and malicious sources are worth exactly nothing

    Evidence of PZ Myers’ longstanding malice towards Michael Shermer will be forthcoming any day now, of course.

    Note the continued conflation of “unnamed” with “anonymous.”

  35. 35
    Jacob Schmidt

    My point, Jacob, is that anonymous accusations from obviously malevolent and malicious sources are worth exactly nothing.

    The law disagrees with you one that one, which is amusing since you yelled about presumption of innocence earlier.

    The difference, of course, is that Jane Doe has been confirmed by Carrie Poppy. Also, PZ doens’t have a history of making shit up about Shermer. The pit and others, on the other hand, do.

  36. 36
    leni

    @24, My point, Jacob, is that anonymous accusations from obviously malevolent and malicious sources are worth exactly nothing.

    Wile it was obvious in this case that it was a bogus accusation, that isn’t always the case. Bad people can be victims too.

  37. 37
    SallyStrange

    silly little girl

    You’re really helping your credibility by attempting to infantilize me in a sexist way.

  38. 38
    leni

    Tell Myers that?

    He already knows that.

  39. 39
    Jacob Schmidt

    Oh, and a known malicious source, by definition, can’t be anonymous. At least write coherently, please.

    Also, Dallas Hughes is hardly anonymous, given that it took about 2 hours to find out where he lived to get him help. Do you have any evidence that Hughes is malicious towards Shermer?

  40. 40
    Anthony K

    Oh, and a known malicious source, by definition, can’t be anonymous.

    Is … a nym, or does that count as anonymous? Because I’m seeing all sorts of malice behind …’s accusations.

    So, can … be similarly dismissed?

  41. 41
    ...

    “Evidence of PZ Myers’ longstanding malice towards Michael Shermer will be forthcoming any day now, of course.”

    Bother reading his blog?

    But in any case – this is futile. This is a carousel “OUR unfounded and anonymous accusations are fine – THEIRS are horrid and mean! Waaah, waaah, waaah”

    My question has still remained unanswered: is anyone surprised that when you started this trash that you would be repaid in your own coin? Are you really that simple?

  42. 42
    Anthony K

    My question has still remained unanswered:

    Jacob Schmidt, comment 16.

    Are you able to read, or are you just being fed Slymepit talking points?

  43. 43
    Loud - warm smiles do not make you welcome here

    #41

    It’s certainly a carousel seeing as you are still confusing anonymous with unknown. One of the accusations has been proved to be anonymous, malicious and unfounded, and one has been made and corroborated by known persons.

    And to answer your question, not surprised in the slightest at the actions of you and your ilk, although I am quite surprised by the target.

  44. 44
    Anthony K

    Let’s do that again, just for fun:

    Idiot wrote, in comment 41:

    My question has still remained unanswered:

    Jacob Schmidt, in comment 16 wrote:

    Naw, I saw it coming. Assholes making false accusations to discredit accusations altogether is pretty predictable. Still absolutely disgusting.

    One more time!

    Idiot wrote, in comment 41:

    My question has still remained unanswered:

    Jacob Schmidt, in comment 16 wrote:

    Naw, I saw it coming. Assholes making false accusations to discredit accusations altogether is pretty predictable. Still absolutely disgusting.

  45. 45
    SallyStrange

    “One of the things that’s so infuriating about this is the “See! False rape accusations are bad!”, as if anyone said they weren’t”

    Tell Myers that?

    Obviously Myers believe that the accusation against Shermer is more likely to be true than false.

  46. 46
    Jacob Schmidt

    Is … a nym, or does that count as anonymous?

    Eh, I made the distinction between pseudonymity and anonymity. Given that … has a pattern of being an idiot and flinging shit around, I’m happy dismissing the little fuck.

    Had the source been truly anonymous, there’d be no basis for claiming malice since we’d have no clue who the fuck the source is. A malicious and anonymous source is possible; there’d simply be no way of knowing whether or not there was malice short of the source spelling it out for all to see.

    These sort of contradictions are common among those who don’t actually think about the issue.

  47. 47
    SallyStrange

    Bother reading his blog?

    Often, for years. I’ve seen nothing of the sort. I take it you have, but elsewhere, but want to keep it secret for some reason? To believe otherwise would make me think that YOU are attempting to launch false accusations of some sort of beef between Shermer and Myers, and of course that would be beneath you.

  48. 48
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Yet another Pitter who openly shows disdain for women. When a woman makes a rape claim and is believed by some, you can trust that the Pitters will flail around dismissing the claim and whine about the justice system. Nevermind that this is not a court of law. These same stains upon humanity are completely unaware of the reasons why rape victims should be believed. No, to them this is just a game. A big gotcha game to get back at FtB for…reasons (incidentally, I am still waiting to hear these reasons for the bullying, lies, threats of rape/violence/doxxing, and harassment that the Pitizens have been engaging in for years).

    The false rape claim about Avicenna was easily discovered to be a lie. There was no credible source.

    Jane Doe is someone PZ knows and trusts. As such, he did the right thing in honoring her wishes to warn other women. Jane Doe’s story has been backed up. Shermer has been discussed among women for years bc of his sleazy behavior.

    There exists plenty of reason to believe Jane Doe.
    There is no reason to believe Avi’s “accuser”, who we know has fabricated the entire thing.
    **

    The Pitters are living examples of “the standard you walk past is the standard you accept”. The horrible sexism, misogyny, harassment, threats and bullying that is part of the Slymepit is silently condoned by all those who do not criticize it. This is the reason commenters at Pharyngula speak up when someone says racist, homophobic, sexist, or transphobic things. This is why we will speak up when someone tells a commenter to DIAF. We want a standard to exist. We do not accept that shitty behavior and want it known that such behavior is to be condemned. The Pitters do not care. The absolute reverence for free speech is of utmost importance to them. They do not care about splash damage. They do not care who they hurt with the slurs and bullying. They are also unaware of the difference between using sexist slurs and general insults (“cunt” vs fuckwit).

    In short they live by the motto “I got mine, fuck you”.

  49. 49
    leni

    Bother reading his blog?

    Do you? Give us some links. If you think he has a long history of Shermer malice that should be fairly easy to document.

    My question has still remained unanswered: is anyone surprised that when you started this trash that you would be repaid in your own coin? Are you really that simple?

    I wasn’t. I know exactly what kind of people enjoy attacking rape victims: stupid and vicious ones who will stoop at nothing to make sure victims stay silent and the status quo is upheld.

  50. 50
    Anthony K

    Do you? Give us some links. If you think he has a long history of Shermer malice that should be fairly easy to document.

    Before that, I want some evidence supporting this claim:

    I have no brief for elevatorgate – but it’s you who have been slinging every kind of filth and smear.

    If … doesn’t know elevatorgate, than the second part cannot be true, since … clearly has no idea of what’s gone before.

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