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I Get Mail – A Quickee

Uh I post on the Slymepit sometimes and I’d never heard of you, nor do I have any idea who Richard Sanderson is, nor have I ever claimed that “FTBers are slacktivists”.

However a variety of members of the Slymepit have.

In fact I came over recently to read a few posts. A fair few like discussing “REAL” activism. It is one of the reason the Slymepit have in general left me alone apart from the faux pas by the few who don’t know what I do.

To your peers, a slacktivist is just someone who writes about a topic. Because I actually do “real social justice”.

…… However, what happened to you was reprehensible and you have my sympathy. I’m just perplexed as to how it somehow supposedly has anything to do with me.

Have you read the forum that you are part of?

Let’s see. You got Pitchguest trying to convince people that my rape accusation was not malicious but a stunt to demonstrate the callous nature and ease by which fake accusations go through while ignoring the very real difficulties it caused.

You have deniers of such accusations in your midst and the only reason there aren’t more in that thread is because this caused “Real Damage” to someone who actually was helping women. In short? The little object lesson backfired by actively harming women.

You can’t stop Child Birth, women who would have delivered at hands of doctors delivered in the hands of untrained midwives who are for emergency deliveries we cannot cover rather than for these. Some of those were difficult. Only time will tell us of the damage caused.

It nearly cost me my job and my career. So people who think FTB are filled with evil bitch feminists who hate men and their man parts could mock PZ.

And this sort of thinking is part of the Slymepit.

Okay just look at this way. A bit ago there were Individuals mocking Taslima Nasrin for being a professional victim and not speaking well. You mean like Jessica Ahlquist? Or are only young white ladies allowed to be “victimised by religion” and speak about it?

To explain the level of difference? Taslima has a religious fatwa on her head for her death set at an amount of money that’s frankly obscene and has had people attempt to kill her. And the Slymepitter was mocking her English. Question? I bet she speaks English better than his Bengali.

The Slyme’s done things like that. Tasteless and mildly hurtful things that allow majorly hurtful things to slide through and then to cover it up.

The condemnation of the actions of the Accusers is only taking place because the Slyme think that the joke’s gone “too far”. They had no problems with the #FTBully thread people and often laughed at their antics until it goes too far  then it’s tutting and shaking of heads.

The faux rape campaign  and all who participated in it have actually harmed real physical women who don’t have access to proper healthcare. The people who sat around gleefully cataloguing other false rapes are part of it.

 

Comments

  1. Jacob Schmidt says

    Did PZ even comment on the Shermer V. Benson debacle? I remember some off hand mocking. I don’t remember PZ really digging in.

  2. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    @33-
    You really love wallowing in the slime. “Silly little girl”. Fuck, but you Skeptastic Fuckwits do not value women. SallyStrange is a woman btw you assclam. I think you should go join Vacula at AVfM. Your open disdain for women would be far more welcome there.

  3. Anthony K says

    Did PZ even comment on the Shermer V. Benson debacle? I remember some off hand mocking. I don’t remember PZ really digging in.

    Yes, he did, at length. Of course, a lot of people are opposed to Shermer, Dawkins, Hitchins, Harris, and others. It’s pretty weak tea to assume that opposition means claims are false. We’re getting into mind-reading territory here.

  4. leni says

    @ Anthony, honestly I can’t even even see a connection between the first and second part of that sentence. I don’t know what kind of evidence one uses to prove non sequiturs.

  5. says

    I wonder where the commenter “…” gets his “way of knowing” from? He *knows* it’s a false accusation and equivalent to the one against Avi.

    The accusation PZ published is backed up by Carrie Poppy as a person she personally knows not someone PZ made up, PZ also knows and trusts her. So Carrie and PZ must be inventing this person by “…”‘s logic. Sounds like some serious conspiracy theorising going on in “…”‘s head.

    That’s ignoring the many independent confirmations of his behaviour and the totally not anonymous claim made by Dallas Haugh (http://creativepooping.tumblr.com/post/58606684580/copy-of-suicide-note-from-attempt-on-8-13-2013)

    VS

    Avi who wasn’t even on the same continent as the “accuser” …

    Your nym is strangely appropriate as you are falling short in the critical thinking department.

  6. Anthony K says

    I don’t know what kind of evidence one uses to prove non sequiturs.

    Five hits of whippits?

  7. Jacob Schmidt says

    Yes, he did, at length.

    Ah, cool. Thanks. My google fu was weak and I had a hard time finding it.

  8. says

    My question has still remained unanswered: is anyone surprised that when you started this trash that you would be repaid in your own coin?

    Several people answered this question. I did. I was surprised. Call me naive. Others were not.

    Of course, the “coin” here is not the same. Again: “unnamed” is not the same as “anonymous.” Shermer’s accuser is known to some, and there are people who’ve corroborated her account. The account of Avicenna’s accuser was never corroborated. PZ is putting his reputation and perhaps job on the line if it turns out the unnamed accuser, and those who have corroborated her story, are lying. As far as I know, nobody put their reputation on the line to accuse Avicenna of rape. The accusation against Avicenna has been proven false. The accusation against Shermer has not. Shermer has a documented history of behaving in a predatory manner towards women. Avicenna does not.

  9. says

    SallyStrange is a woman

    Actually, I’m a porpoise with electrodes attached to my head, which activate the keyboard I use to type. But it’s an understandable mistake given my ‘nym.

  10. Anthony K says

    But it’s an understandable mistake given my ‘nym.

    Mistake? Nuh-uh. … did it on porpoise.

  11. Edward Gemmer says

    I still don’t understand what the Slymepit has to do with any of this. Saying they allow mildly hurtful things and that magically makes them responsible for false rape allegations is not among the strongest arguments I’ve encountered.

  12. Anthony K says

    I still don’t understand what the Slymepit has to do with any of this.

    About the same as Avicenna has to do with PZ’s claim against Shermer.

    Maybe you can ask …. They seem to know.

  13. danzig says

    Bother reading his blog?

    Most people here read his blog. It should be obvious that we don’t see the malice that’s so obvious to you, so why don’t you show it?

  14. freja says

    I don’t know whether to be amused or frustrated with the slymepitters’ inconsistency in their use “presumption of innocence”. That standard goes both ways. Libel and false accusations are crimes too, so the people talking about PZ’s post as if they’re know for sure he lied fail to uphold the very presumption of innocence they claim to value so much. Presuming someone to be innocent of the crime of rape is not the same as presuming the accuser to be guilty of libel.

    In cases consisting of two people’s words against each other, both of them should (legally) be presumed innocent, even when this is logically inconsistent. Outside the courtroom, however, people can largely presume what they want. This is why people say things like “O.J. is guilty” or “The Duke lacrosse team were victims of a false rape accusation”, even though these are not legal facts. Presuming the guilt of the accuser over that of the accused isn’t any more ethical than the opposite.

    Why is that so hard to get?

  15. Jackie: The COLOSSAL TOWERING VAGINA! says

    freja,
    They are both hateful, stupid and very invested in not getting it.

  16. says

    What this shows is that the Slymepit and associated sociopaths don’t give a shit about false accusations. They care about their priests and popes facing accusations ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE LIKELY TO BE TRUE. They have no ethics, no standards besides whatever boosts their egos. And since their are spoiled amoral punks, hurting other people is usually the only thing that can make them feel better about themselves.

  17. Linus says

    That’s me you’re quoting, so I guess I should respond? The title confused me since I didn’t write that as an email, I just left it as a comment to your article.

    My comment was in regard to your article about receiving a false rape accusation. As I said, whoever falsely accused you of rape was engaging in reprehensible behavior and I’m sorry that happened to you. I just don’t understand how you jumped from “I was falsely accused of rape” to “The Slymepitters are bad”. The three glaring problems I see with that are:

    -Is there actually any evidencethat Richard Sanderson is the one who accused you?
    -Is Richard Sanderson even a member of the slymepit?
    -Even if the accuser was a member of the slymepit, then he or she alone would be responsible for it. Not the members of all the forums that he he/she posted on. Like I said I’d never heard of you, so it’s obviously nothing to do with me. Stop generalizing.

  18. Edward Gemmer says

    What this shows is that the Slymepit and associated sociopaths don’t give a shit about false accusations. They care about their priests and popes facing accusations ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE LIKELY TO BE TRUE. They have no ethics, no standards besides whatever boosts their egos. And since their are spoiled amoral punks, hurting other people is usually the only thing that can make them feel better about themselves.

    This also makes no sense at all.

    (1) A false accusation is made
    (2) Someone suspects a person associated with the Slymepuit made the accusation
    (3) It turns out that was wrong
    (4) Also, it turns out that person doesn’t post at the Slymepit
    (5) The Slymepit isn’t associated with the accusation at all, except to for members to say sorry this happened but this wasn’t us.

    Ergo: The Slymepit is evil.

    I get that you have to create villains to justify how you treat people, but this is reaching.

  19. says

    @Gemmer, A wild grogan appears!

    https://twitter.com/felch_grogan/statuses/373089970241560576

    BTW @Million_Gods, KNOWN RAPIST (rumours are EVERYTHING, he vouches for them) is still begging for laptop. So GIVE GENEROUSLY to the #rapist

    So a Slymepit member is perpetuating the false accusation. Papa Felch / Victor Ivanoff. As is PG in saying its equivalent to the Shermer charges, as Rich did by also playing the same game. The Slymepit are happy to take advantage of these false accusations to make a “point” that only they seem to get… I wonder why people are blaming them for the accusations! Makes no sense eh Ed?

  20. says

    Well, finally we’ve identified the REAL victims in all of this: Slymepit members who are shocked–SHOCKED I tell you!–to find out that there’s been misogynist, unethical behavior going on around there!

  21. says

    Will nobody think of the poor, put-upon, judged-unfairly Slymies??!? I mean, a woman has been raped, and Avicenna came close to losing his job doing charity health care work for poor women, but the Slymies are truly suffering at the thought that someone might associate them with the person who callously launched a false rape accusation! Oh, the humanity!

  22. Edward Gemmer says

    Will nobody think of the poor, put-upon, judged-unfairly Slymies??!? I mean, a woman has been raped, and Avicenna came close to losing his job doing charity health care work for poor women, but the Slymies are truly suffering at the thought that someone might associate them with the person who callously launched a false rape accusation! Oh, the humanity!

    Yes, I’m sure you are right. Whenever anything bad happens, we should never, ever question why it happened or who is at fault. If someone is blamed, it doesn’t matter if the blame makes no sense or is based in falsehoods, the important thing is that a bad thing has happened and someone has been blamed. Facts are so inconvenient when emotion is involved.

  23. Jacob Schmidt says

    I really don’t see anything to implicate the slimepit. I sure as hell wouldn’t put it past them, and they do seem to be the most likely candidate, but it could just as easily be AVfM, r/mensrights, any other group of hateful assholes, or just a lone hateful asshole. It seems to me like the pit has become a bit of a bogeyman, where every bad thing gets blamed on them.

  24. says

    Jeez “Edward Gemmer” (EG)… you’re a slymer as sure as I’m breathing, you dishonest shit-weasel.

    “Oh Noes!!! I’m not a member of the Slymepit!!! I only show up on 95% of the threads attacking the Slymepit to defend the slymers or to attack their enemies! I’m not of them at all, even though I use all of their talking points, share all of their views, hate all the people they hate, defend all of their priests and popes. No sir! I’m not a slymer, and how DARE YOU! associate me with the people who I go out of my way to identify with?”

    EG… you can go piss up a rope with your dishonest bullshit. Your disavowals only work on people as intellectually deficient as you, which is basically no one outside of the Pit, and your fellow sewer travelers.

  25. says

    @Jacob Schmidt:

    That’s why I said “Slymepit and associated sociopaths”… and you also have to recognize one other fact. Hate groups like the white supremacists have an official policy of “lone wolves.” Obviously they act as one, but they’ve committed themselves to pretending that each individual racist criminal is a “terrorist cell of one.” They pretend to be individuals acting alone, but they nevertheless share a common network of connections and a singular philosophy dedicated to hurting other people in order to advance their plan to hurt/destroy EVERYONE who disagrees with them.

    Telling me you’re not a member of the Slymepit, but you act just like one? Like telling me you’re not part of the KKK, but you’re a member of an independent neo-Nazi group.

  26. says

    I mean it certainly is IMPORTANT if some unnamed members of the Slymepit feel personally affronted that it’s so fucking plausible that the idea to fabricate a rape accusation in order to prove the imaginary point that PZ Myers or Avicenna or both don’t see how bad fabricated rape accusations are might have originated with one of their members!

    Rape Fabricator and Elevator Guy will remain forever unnamed, I suppose. Perhaps, like Elevator Guy, the Slymies will hit on the idea of accusing Avicenna of making the whole thing up. But boy oh boy, not one of those Slymies will STAND for the idea that it was one of them! Just because they think it wasn’t such a bad idea, and it was making a valid point, and PZ Myers and by extension FTB and by extension Avicenna absolutely deserved to be falsely accused, because, as we all know, two wrongs totally make a right.

    Fuck you, Gemmer.

  27. Anthony K says

    Edward, I’m glad you’re here. Since we’re talking about false accusations and villians, I’d like to ask you something.

    I’ve read you complain about being mocked for being in an interracial relationship. As I’ve been in several myself, and deplore racism, I’d like a link to where this happened on Pharyngula, so I can call out the perpetrators.

    Or was it just mildly offensive?

  28. says

    Gemmer and I have discussed that, Anthony. He has acknowledged that he was never mocked for being in an interracial relationship. He was mocked for characterizing his relationship as “being intimate with the black community.”

    I know because I’m the one who mocked him.

  29. Anthony K says

    Ah, okay. Thanks, Sally.

    Edward, is that your experience too?

    I’d still like to see the thread and context. Edward’s mentioned it several times, and it obviously bothered him.

  30. says

    @SallyStrange – Actually the Slymepit are portraying this as a breakdown and that a fight with my girlfriend left me like this. They also mocked the midwife issue without realising that the midwives in India are a traditional midwife.

    AKA Nanny Ogg… Only without hygiene. Think no gloves, no steth, foetal heart monitor, no ultrasound… That kind of midwife.

    Amusingly the fight was down to a bout of PTSD brought about by the fears (unfounded in retrospect but at the time a worry) that I may not be allowed to practice. Tiga was unaware of what PTSD entails and I didn’t really think about her while being all mopey. She too was under a lot of stress from a family incident and fights with her family (about a private matter) things were said and we were mad, but we made up.

    For those who are unaware, Tiga underwent a pretty big surgery to correct an abdominal hernia. She had a variety of health issues courtesy of that that were corrected. However at this time I was undergoing my voluntary restriction of practice and so was rather stressed and wasn’t as supportive as needs be. I also didn’t try and worry her so kept this from her confiding in one of my closest friends. This hurt Tiga’s feelings and so we fought. I realise that I need to trust her more and we made up. I do my best but being so far away from normal society has kind of eroded some empathy and it’s yet another reminder that I am reaching my limit here and I should start getting ready to head home and be boring.

    My mother was in town. How do you think she felt about this? This was a deeply personal attack. It may not be Richard Sanderson who pulled the trigger but his FTBully clique are part of the problem.

    I may not have behaved in a great way but I didn’t “cheat” on Tiga or any of the other claims floating around the pit.

    They also think I am desperate to be in the in crowd and a SJW (Social Justice Warrior) and don’t like being ignored the way I do and want in on that sweet sweet action. Where I randomly get insulted by strangers online. This is why I apparently I bring up my work so much. Quick show of hands, outside of the little blurb mentioning that I am a trainee doctor (I am effectively an intern) how many times do I bring up medicine except during dealing with medical skepticism?

    If we compare the number of times PZ Myers brings up “work” to mine, PZ Myers is awfully interested in this whole biology malarky. I mean! He can’t go a day without bringing up Biology. What a show off!

    By contrast you will note that most of what I do is not widely known. I am rather quiet about my achievements, but the Slymepit thinks I am desperate to be whatever a social justice warrior is and to get invited to whatever magic party of money they think FTB is sitting on. I apparently am so desperate to be part of some magic in crowd in FTB that apparently I am writing articles to complain about my blog being sat at the bottom of front page! To date people are still claiming that I effectively conned you lot out of money for a Laptop.

    Never mind that the excess money (Each £ was enough to buy someone a good varied diet for a day) was used to help in no small order, the Uttrakhand Floods, Ziztur (from WWJTDs) loss of foot and sent money to DuWayne Brayton to help his kid with the extensive burns he suffered. Nope. The fact I have a donation page up is still testament to this!

    Oh and my apparent desire to be taken seriously….

    Really? I wrote about racism in atheism and how we give it a free ride and the response to it involved trying to explain to two people that the EDL are indeed racist and not helpful because the correct response to Terrorism and “Unsafe Streets” is not to go out and scare people and fight in the streets. The other person’s telling me “but well minorities are racist too!” without realising why “Cracker” is a less charged racist term than “Nigger” or “Paki” or “Kike”.

    The reality which is “I actually am doing decently out here and while my readers aren’t in the millions they are small enough that I can start identifying the vocal ones by name”. And despite all this I have kept a rather relaxed comment policy and indeed more due to my busy work schedule than anything and to date only one person has been banned and he got banned for personal attacks on Tiga rather than me.

    The blog has grown slowly not because of controversy but because I was doing a good job. In fact the major controversy has been watching anti-FTB downvote posts on Reddit on purpose solely because the blog was on here and the Slymepit’s MRA population and their support for AVfM’s “India sucks for men”. Because never mind the voices of Indian women. Hell, never mind the voices of female tourists.

    The fact of the matter is, the Slymepit is slowly showing it’s colours. You may not like A+ or think Atheism should not be organised but the Slyme think that those things are fine and dandy, but what is most important is gossip. The best gossip is negative. Do you know he is cheating on her with a flamenco dancer? Did you see that outfit? No one ever says “That Bob fellow is rather spiffing!”.

    It’s tabloid muckraking at it’s finest. No integrity, no responsibility just freedom.

    Like a wild dog or an infant, with neither of the nutritive value nor the charm.

  31. leni says

    Avicenna, I know you don’t want to leave the lies there, but I feel compelled to tell you not to read that shit. You are going to hurt yourself if you look at that shit too long and this will make them happy. And more importantly, it will make you unhappy.

    They don’t give a shit about your life, they don’t give a shit about your work or about the people it helps, and some of them will actively seek to use this information to hurt you more. The more you look at it, the more it will suck the life out of you and this will only please them.

    I’m not saying ignore the trolls, I’m saying don’t go to the troll den and make your life harder than it needs to be. Take care of yourself.

  32. says

    Indeedy. Which is why I am putting up pictures of kittens (and trying to get people to look at the damn Pat Condell piece!) and doing something for the Sunil Tripathi memorial fund (to go up during a peak period so more people will go see.

  33. says

    QFT

    It’s tabloid muckraking at it’s finest. No integrity, no responsibility just freedom.
    Like a wild dog or an infant, with neither of the nutritive value nor the charm.

    Second @leni’s suggestion of not reading the scumhole. When I was posting there arguing with them they would constantly post messages to FTBlogger X who they assumed was reading their little bit of asshole performance art. I now get a lot of satisfaction from knowing they are talking about me and I’m ignoring them, there at least. What they say is constantly recycled crap anyway so you can just substitute reading it with whatever the least charitable interpretation of situation X might be. Where X is something that could look bad for the “#FTBullies” ….

    Also nix’s the idea that what they discuss at the pit stays there as I usually know what the latest talking point is as it fans out into Twitter and comment threads all over the internet.

  34. says

    Turn away from the Slyme!! It really is that old adage about the pig… about getting in the mud with him to wrestle…

    And Pat Condell… ugh…I know we have to fight his bullshit – but he is also I don’t want taking up much space in my brain… just feel like taking a shower after watching him.

  35. Pitchguest says

    I thought this network was called “FreethoughtBlogs”, not “HowIFeelAboutItBlogs.” Because as a “freethinker” myself, using the principle of “freethought”, by which I mean the “philosophical viewpoint that holds opinions should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, or other dogmas”, there is a lot of bullshit in the OP and a loooot of unfounded opinions being allowed to run rampant.

    This blog post was unnecessary, and the preceding blog post to this one dealing with the same issue was a misunderstanding, which, after the mistake was realised, should have been retracted and the person accused apologised to.

    Instead the accusations continue and you get a gruelling, incomprehensible mess, from a person seemingly hellbent to form a particular narrative. A simple retraction and apology (or excepting any dignity being left, just a retraction) would have put this to rest and everyone could have moved on. But noooo, apparently it’s essential that this gets as much attention as possible. Curious that one should want to put more focus on it instead of less, when allegedly it was responsible for so much harm. Very curious.

    Anyway. I’m going to try to address the portion of the post which is about me, since apparently I am also a villain now in this. *weary sigh* Let’s get to it.

    Let’s see. You got Pitchguest trying to convince people that my rape accusation was not malicious but a stunt to demonstrate the callous nature and ease by which fake accusations go through while ignoring the very real difficulties it caused.

    Oh, this is going to be fun. I haven’t even started and already I notice a blatant lie. To wit: No I didn’t. I said it might have been a possible motive, but I wasn’t ignoring the consequences it could cause. I’ve been very candid that I condemn false rape accusations.

    You have deniers of such accusations in your midst …

    Piss. Off.

    … and the only reason there aren’t more in that thread is because this caused “Real Damage” to someone who actually was helping women. In short? The little object lesson backfired by actively harming women.

    Unfounded speculation followed by spewing of party line.

    If you’re going to continue with this narrative that the denizens of the Slymepit are a pack of criminals, and that they are ultimately culpable for “harming women”, weren’t you the one who *voluntarily* restricted yourself from practice? To me that sounds like you were the one who was “actively harming women”, or wouldn’t you agree? Because while you did get falsely accused of rape, which I do symphatise with, it was a false and ludicrous charge, from an anonymous source to your private email account, and could easily have been refuted. But no, you felt the need to make it public and you felt the need to voluntarily restrict yourself from service. Wow. You actually have the nerve to blame other people for this?

    It nearly cost me my job and my career. So people who think FTB are filled with evil bitch feminists who hate men and their man parts could mock PZ.

    What the fuck are you talking about?

    And this sort of thinking is part of the Slymepit.

    Oh, for fuck’s sake. You *just* denigrated Gurdur for blanket blaming and now you’re doing the same thing?

    How about you practice what you preach, you fucking hypocrite?

    Okay just look at this way. A bit ago there were Individuals mocking Taslima Nasrin for being a professional victim and not speaking well. You mean like Jessica Ahlquist? Or are only young white ladies allowed to be “victimised by religion” and speak about it?

    What the hell does this have *anything* to do with the Slymepit?

    To explain the level of difference? Taslima has a religious fatwa on her head for her death set at an amount of money that’s frankly obscene and has had people attempt to kill her. And the Slymepitter was mocking her English. Question? I bet she speaks English better than his Bengali.

    The times I’ve seen some people talk about Taslima’ English skills is when she says, on her blog or on Twitter, really stupid and/or really fucked up things and they wonder if that really was what she meant to say. Still, that’s really no excuse, is it? English is my *third* language. My first was Swedish, the second Spanish, the third English. Yet many people here have mocked both my English and my comprehension. But let’s not forget that Taslima has a religious fatwa on her head. That’s important in this exchange. (Yes, I think it’s obscene that she has a fatwa on her head, in case you wanted to use that against me. Or in case I forgot to mention it.)

    Like when she says this,

    http://i.imgur.com/MGV2vRs.png

    Maybe some of it was lost in translation?

    The Slyme’s done things like that. Tasteless and mildly hurtful things that allow majorly hurtful things to slide through and then to cover it up.

    What? Tell you what. Head to the Slymepit. Use the “search” function. Search for “taslima” and “english” and you’ll see how many people there have “mocked” her English. You’ll be surprised. (Or not. Whatever.)

    The condemnation of the actions of the Accusers is only taking place because the Slyme think that the joke’s gone “too far”. They had no problems with the #FTBully thread people and often laughed at their antics until it goes too far then it’s tutting and shaking of heads.

    Two words: Citation. Needed. I’m kind of sick of your bullshit now. If you want to keep this up, prove it.

    The faux rape campaign and all who participated in it have actually harmed real physical women who don’t have access to proper healthcare. The people who sat around gleefully cataloguing other false rapes are part of it.

    Falsely accusing anyone of rape is always harmful. But if you want to put the blame on someone who actually “harmed women” in this case, voluntarily even, then maybe you should look somewhere more closer to home.

  36. leni says

    But let’s not forget that Taslima has a religious fatwa on her head. That’s important in this exchange.

    Or the grammar is what’s important.

    Well played indeed. I guess if Avicenna didn’t have a citation for that before, he has one now.

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