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Faux Rape Accusations and Richard Sanderson

So I had a revealing conversation with the Slymepit’s Richard Sanderson today on twitter…

TW – Rape, Fake Rape Accusations, Slymepit and I am Generally Hacked the Fuck Off and that means angry Avicenna.

I am a patient man. Or at least I try to be as patient as possible. I listen, I take time to do things.

If you are unaware of this, I was accused of raping someone at TAM 2013 during a period of time that I was intensely busy with “work”. I didn’t know about the Michael Shermer incident. I just thought it was hate mail. Mabus was doing the rounds after all…

So I disposed of it. Tam 2013? How weird!

Then other allegations started popping up. PZ Myers, Lousy Canuck (AKA Jason Thibeault) and I realised what it was. It was laying the ground work for something big.

Turns out Mr. Sanderson is a possible suspect in the fake accusation that I raped/molested someone at TAM 2013. Why? Because when I admitted publically about the accusation, I also pointed out that I had an alibi. Oh if you wish to know why I admitted to it, I felt the need to be honest because I figured that if I didn’t admit to it, someone would drop it on me as a “surprise” and I would rather do it myself. Bear in mind, work colleagues read this blog and me admitting to the accusation was handled better than if someone else did. Bear in mind at the moment I am teaching and training midwives in safe delivery methods and doing deliveries. AKA working in women’s healthcare. This resulted in me having to deal with greater scrutiny of my work and some time for administrative leave but in the end the truth is an absolute defence.

It meant that colleagues would HAVE to mention this incident. I cleared my name with work but it’s just a painful thing to do. I genuinely thought of bowing out of blogging as I felt my career was more important. It didn’t matter that my alibi was insanely solid.

You see, I have spent the past few months in India and the UK. My passport won’t carry UK stamps since it’s a Biometric but it would mean I was somewhere in the EU or India. I don’t hold an American Visa either. I could not have “gone to TAM”. My alibi is from the UK and Indian Governments and the US government can possibly verify me not being in the USA for that event.

Mr. Sanderson was unaware of the alibi until mentioned. Indicating that he either learnt of the accusation from the accuser or is the accuser himself.

I can’t sue him. I don’t have a lawyer and I don’t wish to drag this stupidity out into a court of law. But I do wish to highlight that any lawyer trying to argue for Mr. Sanderson would probably settle for damages rather than go to court since the only real option is to accuse me of sneaking into the USA illegally in order to attend a skeptical conference. And to make a point? The only people who know what I look like are the handful of people who work with me, the Chennai Skeptics/Atheists Club (who have met me twice!) and Daniel Bruvoli and Guy Otten  who met me when I was in Manchester. Ally Fogg saw me from afar but  we were too bashful to talk to each other (Okay he didn’t know what I looked like and he forgot his phone at home. Mistakes were made…)

I am sure people at TAM would remember the Indian British Guy. We are pretty rare in the USA after all. The stack of evidence in my favour is undeniably more solid. I have never been to any Atheist Meeting and if I am going to be accused like this then I don’t have any reason to ever attend one.

I actually had a post about an entirely different issue. But this kind of came up out of the blue.

Richard Sanderson demonstrates precisely what’s wrong with the Atheist Community. Now you may say that we don’t have a community but the fact of the matter is we do interact with each other a lot. We do hang out with each other and we do read what each other has to say. And Richard demonstrates precisely what was wrong here after our twitter conversation. Richard mentioned the accusation but failed to mention the clear and obvious defence of “Seriously? He is in India and the victim was in the USA, chances are it’s not him”. Which indicates that the accusation was made but the defence was not specifically seen. Richard seemed unaware of the alibi and that means he either was told about this by someone who made the accusation or was part of the accusation. It’s not rocket science. If he learnt it from me he wouldn’t have decided to push ahead with this argument since it was clearly  daft.

They call  themselves the Slymepit out of pride. Free Speech? This wasn’t free speech this was a silencing. This was an attempt to shut me up. I don’t know why. I am not a fan of the methods of the Atheism Plus lot. Maybe I just made them look bad. Can’t call FTB slacktivists with that Avicenna bloke around right? So let’s silence  him. I know! Doctors rely on their integrity. A doctor without one is fucked! Let’s threaten that!

Oh Mr. Sanderson tried to make it seem like it was to prove a point about fake rape allegations from PZ Myers and “Jane Doe”. That it’s easy. Well? No it’s not. Because the difference between a real accusation and a fake one is that a real one is very hard and painful to do. While the Accusers here literally hammered this entire letter out in a few minutes and didn’t even bother selecting properly.

And to prove a point? You would risk my career to win an Internet fight with PZ Myers? What the fuck is wrong with your people? How the fuck can anyone be a part of the Slymepit with absolute fuckwits like this in the rank is beyond me. How can you claim to be the good guys when you behave like this? You have lost any high ground you thought you had by the actions of this absolute waste of space.

And what does that say to non-white atheists? Don’t write about stuff that’s happening locally? Like rapes and violence against women or else the Slymepit will silence you? Don’t write about your non-white problems if they involve women treated badly?

I repeat this. In order to win a fight, the Accusers fabricated a story about a rape then proceeded to hurl these stories at various people including one of the few atheists out there in Charity and one of the few atheists out there who is from an Ex-Hindu background in order to win an Internet fight. You think I am mad about this?

Nah. This is just the point where I lost my patience to be polite with these idiots. These are not the first idiots to try and silence me, although actually gaining some blog success has made their tactic a little more effective than the attempts of religious and animal liberation prior to this.

What’s made me mad was that in order to win an Internet Fight, the Accusers decided to poison the well of Rape Victims. They made it slightly harder for women and men who  were raped to come out. Because they effectively forced me to defend myself to protect my career which is important to me. Had I not come out with the information myself the Slymepit would be gleefully dancing up and down claiming I tried to cover up rape or that I am hiding behind a pseudonym. This would have been a surprise. But what their real achievement is to try and scare off the women and men who are subject to harassment and rape and throw up doubt on anyone trying to support them.

It has made it harder to be taken seriously because they are effectively making up cases on purpose. Why would they do this? Because if they make up enough cases people will start doubting the real ones. Oh it’s just another rape allegation, remember when they accused Avi? Probably the same trick!

The people they harmed the most are the ones who needed our help the most. The ones who needed us to listen and be sympathetic and non judgemental. Instead the Accusers demonstrated nothing but villainy.

Why do it? Was it for the Lolz? Was it to protect Michael Shermer? Was it because you don’t like me? Was it because you can’t call FTB a bunch  of slacktivists when I am about?

What it ended up being about was the silencing of rape victims. The silencing of me and a demonstration to minorities that we shouldn’t rock the boat too much with our issues is just coincidental really. What they wanted to do was shut “the Jane Doe up”. And it never occurred to them the damage they were causing. For all their claims about false rape accusations and the damage it causes, they were awfully blasé about the way they handled it.

Any sympathy I had for the Slymepit has vanished. This is an unforgivable dick move. This is the utmost act of well poisoning. Rape victims try and drink from the “Well” of justice only to find out it’s been poisoned by people such as the Accusers who have created more levels of doubt about all rapes. This isn’t just “within atheism” and about Shermer and Jane Doe, this is about society as a whole. This stupid, arrogant and thoughtless piece of bullshit has done nothing but harm rape victims, both men and women.

I know the real tactic was to probably throw up a bullshit screen to make it seem like  PZ Myers was just making up stuff, but real damage was done by this thoughtless act. Richard’s attempt to utilise it to somehow convince me that “Just as Accusers did to me, so PZ Myers does to Shermer” is nothing but thoughtless. Do people seriously doubt that we don’t have a problem when Richard here has a tonne of support from a variety of sources in his actions?

I was merely inconvenienced. The people harmed the most are those who wish for justice but fear to come forwards lest people like the Accusers deem their “evidence” and “soapbox” as unworthy because their heroes are no longer sacred.

Comments

  1. Pitchguest says

    @Oolon:

    Pitchguest, as always, is full of shit, I regularly describe Sanderson as a pitter and he only protested that he rarely reads/posts there not that he is not a pitter. He clearly is a Slymepitter by any definition. If my word is not good enough, how about Rich’s

    Rich Sanderson: “… http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/index.php Any self-respecting skeptic or atheist should have it bookmarked. It is the site #FTBullies fear.”
    So yeah we have no basis for calling him a Slymepitter, at all.

    So he’s a Slymepitter … by proxy?

    But again, aren’t you forgetting that Avicenna *just* made an argument against blanket statements of a network of people as a monolith, like in his conversation with Gurdur? Or do you support the tarring of a network as a whole?

  2. tiberiusbeauregard says

    Hm so someone else was PZ’ed … not very nice. Proper people don’t do such things.

  3. says

    libellous assertions

    So, Pitchguest was lying when he claimed that he did not have enough knowledge to know whether the accusations against Shermer are true or not. If Pitchguest is uncertain, then Pitchguest cannot also know that the allegations are libellous.

    Which is it?

  4. says

    PitchGuest, as you well know a network of independent bloggers is rather different to a forum. The forum in question is an obsessive hate machine that pours over every little word spoken here. By the bloggers, and for god knows what reason, even the commenters.

    As Janine said –

    … Please, it is the embodiment of tedium.

    Stuck in a forum discussing the other “side” all day? Sounds pretty accurate to me… Probably only ElevatorGate outdoes you all – sat at his computer gathering every tweet on Twitter about feminism and failing to understand even the most basic feminist concepts.

  5. Pitchguest says

    Shermer has been accused of rape, Sally. And not just rape; serial rape. Even if it turns out the assertions are true, to assert them without evidence makes them–at their current stage–libellous.

    But if you want me to double back, I can change it to possibly libellous assertions if it makes you feel better?

  6. Pitchguest says

    You’re a right slimy bastard, James. But you already knew that.

    It’s telling me to me that you should posit to me a red herring instead of responding to the question, “Do you like to tar a network (of people) as a whole?”

    Do you think we haven’t noticed your obsession with all things Slymepit? In almost every conversation, you can’t help but bring it up. “The Slymepit” this, “The Slymepit” that, “‘pitters” this, “‘pitters” that. It’s like a merry-go-round of compulsion. However, being that you obviously want to be the paragon of truth — and getting some pats on the head for being a good dog — it’s remarkable that you still fabricate out of wholecloth falsehoods about the Slymepit when you know different. I suspect with the level of accuracy you crave in other issues, it just wouldn’t be like you to miss those details.

    Yet you do, often, when it comes to things Slymepit related. Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that you have a clear bias and that you’re actually not being truthful at all but lying through your teeth to get back at the people who you believe wronged you? It’s okay, James. There’s no shame in it. Hate is motivation enough. At least it’s honest. Hate us. But do it honestly.

    Stuck in a forum discussing the other “side” all day? Sounds pretty accurate to me… Probably only ElevatorGate outdoes you all – sat at his computer gathering every tweet on Twitter about feminism and failing to understand even the most basic feminist concepts.

    What is it that Ophelia Benson, PZ Myers, Stephanie Zvan, et al, do all day? Discuss the other “side.” Except there really is no other “side” to discuss, but rather behaviour, and bad behaviour at that. Posting rape allegations on their blog, knowing full well that it could possibly ruin their career (and their life), is bad behaviour. Rotten. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a platform for calling that shit out. It’s also a meeting place for people who’ve been shunned by the people here, even though there’s no guarantee they’ll be welcomed with open arms (we don’t condone child porn, for instance – maybe you have a different view on that, James).

    Oh, and tell me more about people “failing to understand even the most basic feminist concepts.” I thought you didn’t need expertise to discuss a subject (e.g. evolutionary psychology) or to rule it out entirely. Or has that changed recently?

  7. leni says

    No, Pitchguest, it makes them accusations with corroborating witness accounts. Accusations are not libel.

    If it makes you feel better, we can refer to Shermer as possibly a rapist.

  8. TaylorMaid says

    Avi. I’m sorry you have been put in such a nasty position, but thankful you decided to stay. Sanderson and Pitchguest are caricatures I would not wish on my worst enemy.

  9. Cogwell says

    Sorry you have to deal with bullshit accusations from these poisonous people and that it has even come to threaten your job and anonymity. I’m glad you decided to keep on blogging after all.

  10. Pitchguest says

    @leni: Sorry. I must’ve missed a session. Why wouldn’t you *already* refer to Shermer as possibly a rapist?

    Or has he already been convicted?

    @TaylorMaid: Apparently I deserve to be called a “caricature” despite not saying anything to justify (or praise as someone was dumb enough to say) the rape allegations made against him. Was it because I happened to criticise his decision for including the Slymepit in his condemnation of Rich, that sort of made this blanket statement to all ‘pitters as condoning rape allegations?

    Which would include me and I don’t, which prompted me to speak up (even though I didn’t have to). But even if Rich was a member of the ‘pit (which he isn’t), it’s not a monolithic structure and doesn’t have a set dogma or rules to follow. Individuals are responsible for themselves individually. But the thing is, Rich’s guilt isn’t even assured (nor proven) so he can’t well indict Rich OR the Slymepit ANYWAY, now can he?

  11. karmacat says

    Pitchguest is hijacking this thread making it all about him and his little group, the slymepit.
    How hard is it to say Sanderson was wrong to threaten Avicenna with false rape allegations to get back at Myers. How hard is it to express support and sympathy for Avicenna. Instead we get arguments that the slymepit isn’t that bad and what Sanderson did wasn’t so bad.
    Okay, that’s my rant. I am now going to ignore anything Pitchguest says. Because there are so many other people worth listening to, especially Avicenna

  12. Sister Eu says

    I just hope people realize saying they were falsely accused of rape isn’t going to get them any points or credit. Nothing changes if one makes a point like “I am claiming I was falsely accused of rape and you still should believe my accuser and others off the bat.” (I added believing their accuser because that is what one must do!) followed by “You’re a rape enabler” or any implications like that. Wow. That’s great. Just makes it hypocrisy. Makes it even worse.

    Also…yeah…can we stop trying to somehow say bad things about the slymepit because allegedly someone else did or said X? Hell, even someone -in- the slymepit- since fighting and disagreeing is tolerated without someone ending up semi-excommunicated or kicked out.

  13. leni says

    @leni: Sorry. I must’ve missed a session. Why wouldn’t you *already* refer to Shermer as possibly a rapist?

    Why wouldn’t you *already* refer to it as possibly libel?

    By the way, I haven’t specifically called Shermer a rapist, so I haven’t needed the qualifier.

    If that changes, I assure you that “possible” will not be the word I use.

  14. garlic says

    Could you explain in simple words what makes you think this Richard Sanderson is behind the false accusations?

    He was “unaware of [your] alibi” ? Well, er, so was I.

    Come to think of it: could any of the people in this thread explain to me why they immediately accepted that Richard Sanderson was indeed the accuser?

  15. Pitchguest says

    @Karmacat: No, it is not “hijacking” when you’re addressing something from the actual fucking post.

    I’ve already condemned the false rape allegations (as I have with all false rape allegations), but maybe you missed it. However, again there seems to be this labouring suspicion that Rich Sanderson is behind the original claim when actually there is no actual evidence to support that suggestion. You’re all such good sceptics. Makes me proud. No, it appears Avicenna either just assumed it was Rich, or he misunderstood.

    Ah well. I’m off. But before I go, I must address one thing, and before I do that I think I need to say that English is my *third* language. Not my first, not my second; *third.* So when I write in English, I acknowledge that what I write might sometimes not always be what I meant, but I have sufficient confidence in my fluency that I should be, at least, somewhat understood. So therefore maybe you could have some understanding why I am confused, karmacat, that you write that I said “what Sanderson did wasn’t so bad” when I wrote nothing of the sort.

    Firstly because I disputed that Rich is responsible because I looked over his Twitter history and didn’t find anything to indict him (and I know of the tweet where he first mentions Avicenna’s rape allegation and it wasn’t a confession), and secondly that if Rich *were* the one responsible then he would have deliberately have made a false rape accusation towards Avicenna – and as you know, I condemn false rape accusations – so why would I make a case that what he did “wasn’t so bad”? Tell me that, karmacat.

  16. leni says

    Done.

    We’ll see.

    Come to think of it: could any of the people in this thread explain to me why they immediately accepted that Richard Sanderson was indeed the accuser?

    Honestly, in my case, I didn’t recognize the name and didn’t care who it was. That someone did it at all was enough to piss me off.

    Whew! Good thing I didn’t feel the need to run off to Twitter and start sending him death threats and creepy ass photoshops. That was a close one. I was just completing the final touches on my donkey porn Sanderson Photoshop masterpiece when I read your post and realized what a terrible mistake I’d made.

  17. Rob says

    Avicenna – Sorry you have been targeted in this way. It’s just wrong on every level.

    Pitchguest – You couldn’t argue your way out of a wet paper bag and, on top of that, your whining is starting to make you sound like a professional victim. Please stop while we ‘fear’ you, rather than pity you.

  18. hjhornbeck says

    I’m glad you’ve decided to tough it out, Avi, I’d hate to have your voice silenced by these assholes. I wish I could say I’m surprised by this, but after witnessing a few SlymePitters debate which blogger they’d drive to commit suicide first… I don’t think I can be shocked any more.

    I think of the ‘pit as a sociopathic MMORG. The rules are pretty simple: point out the hypocrisy and lies in a blogger from SkepChick or FtB to earn points. They talk about free speech? Mock them via speech, and gloat as the “baboons” howl over it for a massive point gain. No controversy du-jour? Don’t worry, you can still grind by repeating old controversies.

    We all get a kick out of games, but I’m sure most of us went a little too far at some point. We started dreaming in Tetris blocks, or musing over the skill benefit granted by a skirt. Most of us shake our heads at how the game has warped our perceptions, and decide to set aside gaming for a bit. A few, though, get addicted and never walk away. Their view is perpetually skewed by the game they play.

    Take Pitchguest, for instance. His two big concerns? It’s hypocritical for someone from FtB to cry “rape!” without proof beyond a reasonable doubt, then turn around and bash someone else for accusing the accuser of rape. And, it’s a horrible lie to say your accuser is from a place they’re not.

    Does he empathize with Avicenna? Nope. Does he realize he’s defending someone making an obviously false rape charge? Nope. Does he spot that he’s repeating tired, long debunked lies about the accusations made through Myers, even though he monitors us for hypocrisy and lies?

    Of course not. They’re not in the rules.

    All he sees is a rare combo of hypocrisy and lies, and salivates over the points he’ll earn from it. The bloggers and commenters on FtB? Pawns on a chessboard, bosses to overcome, NPCs that only matter if they help or oppose the quest. They’re not real people, just pixels coming from his video card. This makes them expendable, or exploitable. His reward for a good play is recognition from his fellow gamers, and the high that comes from defeating a great evil with your wits and your sharp tongue.

    In the end, victory is all that matters to the SlymePit.

  19. hjhornbeck says

    tiberiusbeauregard @52:

    Hm so someone else was PZ’ed … not very nice.

    Oh how clever, you’re insinuating Myers did something awful and trying to associate him with awful things at the same time. However, now that we have one named and public accuser, plus a named person to back up Myers’ unnamed accuser, plus another named person to make more accusations on behalf of other victims, plus a collection of named and pseudononymous people with claims ranging from sexual assault to inappropriate behavior, it’s tough to argue that Myers is anything but a whistle-blower to a long-simmering problem, and more worthy of praise than scorn.

  20. says

    You might also benefit from reading Elizabeth Loftus’ take on eyewitness testimony. Not as accurate as you might think.

    Yeah, because women are really terrible at recognizing whether they’ve been raped or not. Just like people who had their pockets picked are terrible at understanding whether their pocket has been picked or whether they made a consensual charitable donation.
    Got that, Pitchguest. Bitches be lying.

  21. hjhornbeck says

    Pitchguest @57:

    Do you think we haven’t noticed your obsession with all things Slymepit?

    It’s tough not to talk about a forum that specializes in spreading lies and hatred about you.

    Could it be that you have a clear bias and that you’re actually not being truthful at all but lying through your teeth to get back at the people who you believe wronged you?

    Would you mind pointing out the lies in the above link? I’ll admit I’m having a tough time finding any.

    What is it that Ophelia Benson, PZ Myers, Stephanie Zvan, et al, do all day? Discuss the other “side.”

    On a lark, I decided to Google Benson’s posts about the SlymePit. From the first page, we have:

    Jan 19, 2013 – Yes, I feel unsafe because of the non-stop hatred at the slyme pit and on Twitter. Yes, you made that worse.

    Mar 3, 2013 – [Mike Nugent] went to the slyme pit and dug deep and came up with a big, dripping, stinking, oozing collection of examples.

    Mar 12, 2013 – So I was curious, so I googled the phrase, and it went to a page at the slime pit where they were discussing the photoshop, so I found the …

    Mar 30, 2013 – The Slyme Pit and their friends are polarizing the skeptic and atheist communities. Before they came around, sexism was a rare topic around …

    May 11, 2013 – … seriously unpleasant commenters from the slyme pit attempt to ingratiate themselves on your first substantial thread. The superficiality of their …

    May 29, 2013 – Under the circumstances – two years of nonstop harassment by her friends at the slime pit – that’s a deliberately offensive provocation.

    Jun 5, 2013 – Either he will disinvite me from the conference, or I will be forced to withdraw, because the slime pit will do whatever it takes to hound me out.

    So not only do we fail to find daily posts about the Slyme Pit, Benson only mentions them when they slander her, or swarm other’s blogs and hashtags. This suggests an easy way to get Benson at least to shut up about the Slyme Pit:

    Stop slandering her and swarming other’s blogs and hashtags.

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a platform for calling that shit out.

    And by “calling shit out,” you mean “reposting the sex tape over and over,” I presume?

  22. hjhornbeck says

    Pitchguest @61:

    it’s not a monolithic structure and doesn’t have a set dogma or rules to follow. Individuals are responsible for themselves individually.

    Oh I see, you’re not a harasser, you just chose to spend your free time hanging around with and defending people who harass others. You don’t post insulting photoshop images, you just hang around in forums with entire threads devoted to posting insulting photoshops. You don’t make false rape accusations, you just defend people who make false rape accusations.

    You are completely different from the crowd you associate with, because you’re an individual who is nothing like them.

  23. leni says

    Giliell:

    Yeah, because women are really terrible at recognizing whether they’ve been raped or not.

    No, he just kinda implied that we’re too stupid to recognize our dates when they rape us. Especially when they are famous. And possibly leave autographed books with publicity shots of them on the bedside table.

    Jesus, you fucking feminists.

    /sarcasm :)

    @jenB- I just posted my masterpiece on your FB page. Seemed like waste otherwise =/ But I did put a disclaimer on it that he may or may not be a pitter. Along with a poll asking if he was fuckable or not and if not, if we should maybe start trying to get him to kill himself. Just want to make sure I cover all the bases.

    Eu, I’ll stop saying bad shit about that fucking pit as soon as it stops giving me reasons to. Until that happens, which will be at approximately never o’clock ever, if one of your marginal posters goes marginally more rogue and decides to do something marginally more unethical than normal, I think I’ll just keep mocking for the usual reasons and not lose any sleep over it.

  24. Lofty says

    Just lobbing in a great big “thank you” to Avicenna for continuing this blog in the face of Slymie attacks.
    Cheers

  25. scimaths says

    Who tells lies about rape ? Men do.

    1) when they rape (never happened and even if it did she was asking for it)

    and

    2) when they invent accusations against other men as part of their petty pissing contests.

    That these men are so convinced that this is how women behave (in 2) is nothing but a huge projection and doesn’t tally with reality at all.

  26. A Demonic Duck Of Some Sort says

    Anybody else think it’s strange that 100% of rape accusations made against FTB bloggers are false?

  27. EddyJamesOlmos says

    Comment submitted:
    Hi everyone, I just wanted to post a few things here for you all to read through. http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongods/2013/08/08/waking-up/ This seems to be the “Ur-post” which started all this nonsense. It’s a clearly hypothetical example of Avicenna describing how easy it is to falsely accuse someone of rape. it was posted on August 8th. http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/08/the-rules-2/#comment-617262 This was posted on August 26th by Oolon. Sanderson apparently retweeted it. I’m going to go on record and say that was extremely stupid of Sanderson, since it was a baseless third-hand claim with no sources given. You can check his twitter timeline, but I’ll also post it as a quotation. “Richard Sanderson @RichSandersen @ool0n How many over at FfTB have had (“false”) rape allegations levelled at them? Avicenna has now joined the list. http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/08/the-rules-2/#comment-617262 …” The next major reaction seems to be this FTB article we’re all reading now. So unless someone has an earlier post that shows Sanderson making the claim directly, allow me to begin to suggest the sequence of events: 1) Avicenna gives a hypothetical example regarding rape claims. 2) ??? 3) Oolon claims the Slymepit is now making real rape accusations about Avicenna. 4) Sanderson, who reads both FTB and the Slymepit, stupidly retweets this gossip during a discussion about rape accusations on twitter. 5) Sanderson is accused (along with all ‘pitters) of falsely accusing Avicenna of rape. Of course, if there is some documentation for part 2 (the part before Oolon publishes his statement about the slymepit, maybe his source?), I would be interested in seeing it. I think it’s a little convenient that Avicenna published a hypothetical rape accusation, and now he’s supposedly being accused of an actual rape for which he has an airtight alibi. Oh, and I think it’s great he’s doing awesome things in India, keep it up! Doing good things is much more important than what somebody believes about a particular issue, imo.

  28. Edward Gemmer says

    You are completely different from the crowd you associate with, because you’re an individual who is nothing like them.

    Pretty much the entire foundation of social justice. Don’t make bullshit assumptions about people.

  29. says

    Actually after that I was accused of raping someone at TAM 2013… That’s what they are discussing rather than this hypothetical.

  30. Don Quijote says

    Just adding more support from a (mostly) lurker. Also to say that Reading anything from Pitchguest makes me want to have a shower.

  31. EddyJamesOlmos says

    Avicenna, could you tell me who your accuser was, when they accused you and what method of contact they used? I would like to figure out what in blazes is going on here, because nobody seems to know.

    It still looks like Sanderson got his information from Oolon, so it’s likely that Sanderson didn’t know what he was talking about and was just repeating gossip as tends to happen.

  32. latsot says

    @Don Quijote:

    I (efficiently) agree with both your points.

    Sadly, you inadvertently made me think about Reading, which made me want to have another shower.

  33. msironen says

    Take a bow, Oolon; this must be your greatest success at trolling yet. You’re basically flinging shit randomly into thin air, painting a bullseye (with “Slymepit” written on it) wherever the turds land and getting a standing ovation as the greatest marksman in the world.

  34. says

    The accusation was made via E-Mail while I was at work. I disposed of it since “Lol, Hate Mail!”. And it was blatantly stupid. I have never been to TAM ever. In addition Mabus was doing the rounds so I just put it down to his nonsense.

    A few days later when logging back in, I realised that more than one accusation has been made at the same time. I then realised that this makes me liable should anyone accuse me on here of ignoring “accusations”. So I released the claim myself. However I did so with the point that I actually have an Alibi.

    I poked around the Slymefront today. I noticed someone saying “alibis don’t count”. They do when you are in another country on the other side of the bloody planet. Despite what my ex-girlfriends may say, my penis is not that large and is not visible from space.

    It is physically impossible to have raped someone or molested someone or twerked someone or bought someone a drink or approached them in an elevator for “coffee” at TAM as I wasn’t at TAM, wasn’t in the USA and more than a 1000 miles away. I have NEVER been to TAM and judging from the way I am treated currently am unlikely to be willing to do so since I am just someone who’s life was set to be ruined by a stupid allegation for the sake of an Internet Debate.

    People said “meh at that point” and left it at that. Because it was clearly a stupid allegation.

    Richard however brought it up without the response of “It’s A Stupid Allegation and Blatantly Incorrect”. The most important point of me mentioning it was my alibi.

    Either this meant that Richard simply didn’t know about the alibi meaning he never saw the response to the original allegation or someone he knew told him about the allegation without the alibi. Either way it’s mighty fucking suspicious to bring it up suddenly.

    The stupid allegation caused me no financial distress since I don’t work for money. BUT it did cost a Charity Money. We had to pay for chaperones at all times and I had to delay lists forcing midwifes to take over and overwork on others who took up the slack. It cost time to go through my criminal records and to prove travel documentation.

    Had I not done this and Richard said what he said, I would have been in a lot more trouble and under pending investigations. The fact that I brought it up myself granted me some leeway with work.

    Can you see why I am suspicious? No one’s brought it up for weeks and suddenly up pops the allegation without the defence? Oh and I poked around the Slymepit. I know a lot of people are going “why aren’t they taking these accusations seriously”.

    2 weeks of observation, paperwork, security checks and re-clearance plus chaperoned.

    That’s pretty serious. And the worst part is they accused me while I was working in women’s healthcare. So I have to put up another 2 weeks worth of work. 120 hours in total to make up for hours lost.

    Still think those faux rape accusations are funny and helpful?

  35. EddyJamesOlmos says

    Wow, that fucking sucks. False rape accusations are never fun. The onus should always be on the accuser to make their case, rather than on you, Avicenna, to prove you could not have done it. But that’s irrelevant.

    Richard was being stupid. No argument here. But it really does look like he read something Oolon posted and immediately jumped onto Twitter with it. He even linked it directly. I don’t know if Oolon knew about the emails you got or what exactly happened. But Oolon posted on the 26th and this thread went up on the 28th, so either Richard is the accuser, knows the accuser or (most probable imo) he got the info from Oolon. Since, you know, he linked to Oolon directly on twitter.

    There’s always the possibility that the rape accusation was a trolling attempt from some jerk, and ignoring it would have been fine. But I completely understand your desire to immediately clear your name before your reputation could be damaged by false accusations made public.

    I don’t think there was any conspiracy to falsely accuse you of rape as part of a master plan., certainly not a master plan consisting of the majority of an internet forum, considering most people on said forum seem completely unaware of any of this. I’d like to thank you for your time and providing those details. I think we all have a much better idea of what happened, and my sympathies for what you went through.

  36. Don Quijote says

    @latsot: Took me a while to understand but sorry about that. Bloody Spanish keyboard does things like that when typing in English.

  37. latsot says

    @Don:

    It is NEVER cool to remind people of the existence of Reading, but I forgive you :)

    @msironen:

    Congratulations on moving from a tactical irony grenade to a weapon of mass irony. Perhaps you can pin down what #FtB means? Or #FtBullies? Talk about painting a target around where the blunderbus hits. I don’t think you are arguing in good faith.

    I’m not sure why I keep mentioning weapons.

  38. Edward Gemmer says

    I’m having a hard time seeing why Sanderson would be the one making the accusations. Seems pretty clear that people are upset about this whole Shermer stuff and pointing out, reasonably, that multiple people on FtB have been falsely accused of rape, all of them able to defend themselves because they knew some details of the accusation. You were able to show that you didn’t rape anyone at some place because you’ve never been to that place. Shermer can’t even do that, because he isn’t allowed to know where he allegedly raped someone.

  39. Lofty says

    Shermer can’t even do that, because he isn’t allowed to know where he allegedly raped someone.

    You mean he’s lost count of the number of women he’s got drunk beyond the point of conscious consent to be laid?

  40. says

    @EddyJamesOlmos, oh yes poor Rich is the victim of some elaborate trolling campaign orchestrated by me. You and @misronen are almost as unhinged as Rich. My accusing Rich, Pitchguest and the pit of that false rape claim pre-dates your links … I was referring to this post not the one you linked to ->
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongods/2013/08/13/skeptical-justice/

    First of all with absolutely no evidence the likelihood that a malicious lie about a FTBlogger comes from the Pit is almost 100% from the get go … Maybe with Thunderf00t on the loose there is an outside chance one of his supporters independently created this, but somewhat unlikely. Now I know with the pits, pics or it didn’t happen, requirements for evidence they will never accept it… But please point me to all those libellous accusations over the last 2-3years that have NOT come from the Slymepit? They are a forum of obsessives dedicated to churning out smears whether grounded in fact or not.

    Regardless I accused Rich, PitchGuest and the pit of being the spreaders of these false claims on the Ian Murphy post about Shermer. Rich, PitchGuest and Paden’s response? Not to deny despite it being a serious accusation. In fact Rich went off on a rant that was off the delusional scale, even by his standards. Lets have a look at some of the things said by the conspiriloon defamation machine known as Rich Sanderson. (That Murphy thread alone)

    In the meantime, oolon’s spambot is endorsed by an accused rapist, a group of liars, bullies, child p0rn obsessers, and people accused of sexual harassment.

    Don’t forget Greg wrote the anti-harassment guidelines for a con ft some of the major FTBullies JUST AFTER he was kicked off the network for sending threats of violence to someone!
    That’s another little detail ool0n tries to ignore. Thing is you have to start wondering whether Laden (or perhaps his lover Stephanie Zvan) have some dirt on oolon. It seems they have him by his little balls.

    What is it about feminists who the FTBullies hate, despise and abuse that gets YOU so worked up? You even run a bot with a known abuser of women.

    You are part of, and are associated with, a bunch of vicious bullies who have a history of throwing abuse, violent threats, and intimidation towards vulnerable women.

    That’s actually similar to what PZ Myers and his horde at Pharyngula said, but with one slight difference. They claimed that they were all RACIST. Some of them are bit rapey as well, according to the allegations made public about PZ and Lousy Canuck.

    What’s even more ironic is that PZ Myers himself has been accused of sexual harassment, and another FTB blogger was accused of rape.
    However, PZ is ADAMANT that those claims are not “plausible”.
    We’ll see.

    Go back to defending Greg Laden, the stalker of women and sender of violent threats. Plus, have you seen you picture at The Pit? HEY YOU GUYS! You’re an ugly git.
    PS: Looking forward to seeing PZ get ruined? I’m loving all this.

    Rich is a perfect example of what the Slymepit does for your grip on reality. No lie, no matter how outlandish, is considered “too far” by him. Myself and @latsot have had a challenge on who can get him to provide one bit of evidence or even a source for any of his ravings on Twitter. Neither of us succeeded in getting him to back anything up.

    He doesn’t care … Summed up by this -> “Looking forward to seeing PZ get ruined? I’m loving all this.” … He is a total asshole and I personally strongly suspect he sent the false allegations. He certainly doesn’t bat an eyelid in repeating them as if true. So excuse me for giving exactly ZERO fucks if the anonymous coward known as @RichSandersen on Twitter gets shit for this and is “innocent” … It’s nothing compared to the damage he does to his own “reputation”! All he needs to do is create another sock account and he can go back to viciously lying about all and sundry.

  41. Wrath Panda says

    It’s things like this that make me want to wall myself up in my flat and throw stones at anyone who attempts to get close. What the absolute fuck is wrong with people who think that doing something like this will either a) be a giggle, or b) think it will make a point? I tend to avoid commenting on most things on these blogs, but seriously, fuck the lot of you who side with the rancid piece of shit that came up with this tactic. Really. Fuck off out of my species and stop using up precious resources like oxygen on your continued existence.

    Avi, for what they’re worth, you have my sympathies for having this shat upon you and also you have my support. You may also have next time you’re back over to the UK if you feel the need to vent at someone for a couple of hours.

  42. Wrath Panda says

    Edit: Bah! So angry I can’t even post straight! Last sentence should read: You may also have *insert beverage of choice here* next time you’re back over to the UK if you feel the need to vent at someone for a couple of hours.

  43. EddyJamesOlmos says

    Oolon: I don’t see how anything you posted in any way indicts Sanderson as Avicenna’s accuser. He repeated some gossip online and has said a bunch of unkind things about you personally and a few other FTB members he apparently doesn’t like. I can’t make any connection between those things he said and “he made false rape accusations via email to Avicenna.”

    I don’t see what relevance one’s grip on reality via exposure to the ‘pitt has to do with this conversation, nor do I see a relation between something bad happening to a member of FTB = “there is a near-100% chance it came from the ‘pitt.” As you yourself conceded after a fashion, Oolon, thunderfoot’s video is very popular. When you get hate mail on youtube, isn’t it usually quite threatening and rude? That is why I suggested the culprit might be a youtube atheist who got pissed off after watching a thunderfoot video. That’s just a guess, but it’s no better or worse than anything put forward thus far.

    As for accusations that didn’t come from the pitt, I’m pretty sure Rebecca Watson, PZ and others have collected quite a few, and they would have more if they didn’t disable youtube comments. Or hell, you could go through an average thunderfoot video about freethoughtblogs, I bet you’d find quite a few libelous accusations in the comments. Those usually aren’t pitters.

    I never suggested Oolon was trolling Sanderson, just that Sanderson made a dumb mistake and repeated gossip without verifying it, and this was taken as a sign that he had an inside track on the rape accusation. When really, he seems to have simply read Oolon’s comment, believed it and posted a link on twitter. Being a “total asshole” doesn’t make him guilty of sending a false rape accusation.

    Anyway, Avicenna: If you want to catch whoever did it, you should be able to have your techie friends trace his personal information back using his email. One of the ‘pitters offered to help you, or if you don’t trust him you can have your own nerd brigade do it. I don’t think anyone, anywhere is on the side of the person who sent the false rape accusations.

  44. Richard Sanderson says

    Given the ongoing confusion here and elsewhere, I will respond directly.

    First of all, let me just say there is solid evidence the allegation against Avicenna is completely FALSE, and I apologise if my tweets lent credibility to any false allegation. However, I DID NOT accuse you at any point – I remarked on the fact that an allegation was made.

    This is what I believe to be the timeline:

    1. I discover (via OOLON at Butterflies and Wheels) that Avicenna has had an “allegation” made against him. I had no idea where this allegation came from, or what its nature was. Given the present atmosphere of discussing rape allegations out in the public (and indeed, even satirising them in the form of Ian Murphy’s troll interview which various FTB bloggers thought was a hoot), I tweeted why a number of FTB people have had allegations made against them.

    2. I tweet about the “allegation”, and even linked to the source I got it from.

    That is it. I DID NOT know anything about the original allegation, or even that it was an email. Also, I DID NOT make up allegations about PZ and Canuck – they revealed those allegations on their own blog sites, contrary to some claims I’ve seen suggesting I made those up!

    Perhaps you should be asking Oolon where HE got the information? Really, it is astonishing to see Oolon trying to act as though he has some kind of moral high ground. It’s sickening.

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