[warning]A Note – I lost interest in writing this halfway through. On the basis of I read something on AVfM that completely took the humour out of me. This is not a good piece of work. I wrote and I am personally not happy with it. AVfM deserve to get their arguments destroyed and unfortunately halfway through this I found a greater evil. I am covering that tomorrow.[/warning]
A Voice For Men’s got a bunch of remarkable pieces.
I figure it’s a Friday so let’s keep things light. Tomorrow’s piece is a bit more dark and a lot less “amusing” than today’s.
So AVfM ran not one but TWO pieces on why you (as a man) shouldn’t get married.
The first one’s a repost from Huffington Post and Dr. Helen Smith gave “permission” to have it reposted. I am sure she thinks that AVfM are harmless but we know otherwise. If you don’t know otherwise, stick around. Tomorrow’s “big post” is a proper travesty and a testament to the vapidity of the Men’s Rights Movement.
It seems that fewer and fewer people in general are getting married these days, and even fewer men seem interested. Men no longer see marriage as being as important as they did even 15 years ago.
Because the need to get married has dropped because the stigma of cohabitation no longer exists neither does the stigma of unmarried mothers.
1. You’ll lose respect. A couple of generations ago, a man wasn’t considered fully adult until he was married with kids. But today, fathers are figures of fun more than figures of respect: The schlubby guy with the flowered diaper bag at the mall, or one of the endless array of buffoonish TV dads in sitcoms and commercials. In today’s culture, father never knows best. It’s no better in the news media. As communications professor James Macnamara reports, “by volume, 69 percent of mass media reporting and commentary on men was unfavorable, compared with just 12 percent favorable and 19 percent neutral or balanced.”
Dear MRA, Are you really so insecure in your masculinity that you cannot carry a flowery diaper bag? Does the mere thought of flowers repel you with their femininity?
And seriously? We tell our children to not believe everything they say on TV . I apparently forgot that we have to explain to the MRA that “TV No Real”. There are plenty of movies with good father figures and indeed TV shows with “good” fathers. It’s just that we would rather see Homer Simpson as a useless buffoon rather than the loving father that he ALSO is.
I think the reason why he appeals as a character is that he is flawed. That his grandiose plans are held back by his limitations but despite that selfishness he is still capable of going above and beyond to do the right thing. The Episode “Maggie makes Three” ends with him defacing the “Don’t Forget, You Are Stuck Here Forever” sign with photos of Maggie so it reads “Do it for Her”.
There are good fathers on TV, you just chose to ignore them. And no one loses respect for being a father. You gain it. You lose respect for being a terrible father.
2. You’ll lose out on sex. Married men have more sex than single men, on average – but much less than men who are cohabiting with their partners outside of marriage, especially as time goes on. Research even suggests that married women are more likely to gain weight than women who are cohabiting without marriage. A Men’s Health article mentioned one study that followed 2,737 people for six years and found that cohabiters said they were happier and more confident than married couples and singles.
If the only reason you are staying with someone is for “sex” then I am afraid your relationship is on the shakiest of grounds as it is.
And I repeat. While obesity is a medical condition of great importance considering its epidemic status in the UK and the USA and it’s association with various health issues, it is not the be all and end all of relationships and attractiveness.
If your entire relationship is based on sex and BMI then I am afraid that most human beings have difficulty matching up to the lofty standards of “Attractive”.
And men in relationships are liable to gain weight too. Are women meant to accept a family pack but men cannot handle the muffin top?
3. You’ll lose friends. “Those wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine.” That’s an old song, but it’s true. When married, men’s ties with friends from school and work tend to fade. Although both men and women lose friends after marriage, it tends to affect men’s self-esteem more, perhaps because men tend to be less social in general.
Because women stop you from going out with your boys… Isn’t that right?
Seriously? You tend to drift apart from school friends anyways. It has more to do with “Growing Up” and people moving on with other things. I am rarely in touch with some of my “best” friends because of India. It’s not because of Tiga, it’s because I live “far away from them” and they have stuff to do. They are friends, not pet dogs to wait loyally for me and me alone.
If you can balance your married life there is no reason you cannot “keep” your friends or indeed have new ones.
4. You’ll lose space. We hear a lot about men retreating to their “man caves,” but why do they retreat? Because they’ve lost the battle for the rest of the house. The Art of Manliness blog mourns “The Decline of Male Space,” and notes that the development of suburban lifestyles, intended to bring the family together, resulted in the elimination of male spaces in the main part of the house, and the exile of men to attics, garages, basements – the least desirable part of the home. As a commenter to the post observes: “There was no sadder scene to a movie than in ‘Juno’ when married guy Jason Bateman realized that in his entire huge, house, he had only a large closet to keep all the stuff he loved in. That hit me like a punch in the face.”
And what is a male space? I mean I have stuff in the garage because keeping a lawnmower and tools for the car in my bedroom is counter-intuitive.
It’s just that traditional male hobbies (AKA Fixing Stuff With Tools) Kind of has to be far away from the house lest you keep people up with your infernal banging.
And again? Stereotype. If you judge relationships by “TV Ones” then your idea of healthy relationships is extremely iincorrect.
5. You could lose your kids, and your money. And they may not even be your kids. Lots of men I spoke with were keenly aware of the dangers of divorce, and worried that if they were married and it went sour, the woman might take everything, including the kids. Other men were concerned that they might wind up paying child support for kids who aren’t even theirs – a very real possibility in many states. On my blog, I polled over 3200 men to ask how they would react to finding out that a child wasn’t theirs after all. 32 percent said they would feel “anger and fury at the mother,” 6 percent said they would feel “depression,” 18 percent said “anger and depression,” 2 percent said “none of the above,” 32 percent said “angry at the system that forced them to pay,” and only 2 percent “didn’t care.” One man commented that his ex-wife had taunted him with the knowledge that his 11-year old son wasn’t actually his: “I was angry at the mother…I severed all ties to the boy. Some may see this as a failing. I see it as self-preservation, and to those that ask the question of whether or not the courts will make a non-biological parent pay child support, pay attention: YES THEY WILL! They see you as nothing more than a source of cash for the child. It seems that a person in these situations should be able to sue the real father for child support.”
Your question is statistically incorrect. No one likes being cheated on. Your question is almost rhetorical in inanity.
This is a very real possibility. However so is dating someone who tries to stab you or who tries to fob off her kleptomania on you. None of these are pleasant experiences. However that doesn’t mean all women have formed a cartel to steal your money and your sperm anymore than men have formed cartels of wife beaters and rapists.
Saying all women are “Terrible” is like saying that all men are “Terrible”. It’s just as stupid and vapid. To flog bullshit like this HARMS relationships.
6. You’ll lose in court. Men often complain that the family court legal system is stacked against them, and in fact it seems to be. Women gain custody and child support the majority of the time, as pointed out in this ABC News article: “Despite the increases in men seeking and receiving alimony, advocates warn against linking the trend to equality in the courtroom. Family court judges still tend to favor women, said Ned Holstein, the founder of Fathers & Families, a group advocating family court reform. “‘Family court still gives custody overwhelmingly to mothers, child support overwhelmingly to mothers, and courts still give almony overwhelmingly to mothers and women,’ he said. ‘The family courts came into existence years ago in order to give things to mothers that mothers needed,” he said. ‘The times have changed and the courts have not.’”
Yes and this is something the MRA can fight for. Proper representation and equal treatment in court.
You won’t get that by bashing women and implying that they are gold diggers.
7. You’ll lose your freedom. At least, if you’re charged with child support that you can’t pay, you can be put in jail – and if you can’t afford a lawyer, you don’t have the right to have one appointed because, according to the Supreme Court, it’s technically a civil matter, never mind the jail time. Fathers and Families found that it’s the men who are jailed rather than women: “A new report concludes that between 95% and 98.5% of all incarcerations in Massachusetts sentenced from the Massachusetts Probate and Family Courts from 2001 through 2011 have been men. Moreover, this percentage may be increasing, with an average of 94.5% from 2001 to 2008, and 96.2% from 2009 through 2011. It is likely that most of these incarcerations are for incomplete payment of child support. Further analysis suggests that women who fail to pay all of their child support are incarcerated only one-eighth as often as men with similar violations.”
I also don’t like living in a first world nation. You lose your freedom too. I mean why should I follow the rules? Screw the Rules, I have Money! (I don’t have any money. It’s just a figure of speech).
Again this is something worth campaigning for if it’s true however the people at AVfM kind of scuttle their own ship with the first points.
8. Single life is better than ever. While the value of marriage to men has declined, the quality of single life has improved. Single men were once looked on with suspicion, passed over for promotion for important jobs, which usually valued “stable family men,” and often subjected to social opprobrium. It was hard to have a love life that wasn’t aimed at marriage, and premarital sex was risky and frowned upon. Now, no one looks askance at the single lifestyle, dating is easy, and employers probably prefer employees with no conflicting family responsibilities. Plus, video games, cable TV, and the Internet provide entertainment that didn’t used to be available. Is this good for society? Probably not, as falling birth rates and increasing single-motherhood demonstrate. But people respond to incentives. If you want more men to marry, it needs to be a more attractive proposition.
Yes, which is why your entire MRA movement is dedicated to whinging about why women don’t like them.
Women don’t like MRA because they frankly are anti-women. They may pretend to be fighting for men’s rights but they ultimately are anti-women.
Okay these are the “stupid ones” from Huffpo. It gets worse with the ones generated by AVfM
1. Your wife won’t be able to manipulate you by withholding sex.
While some people (ok, women mostly) treat marriage vows as loose, conditional suggested guidelines, when I make a vow, I’m going to keep it. If it is within the capability of my mind or body, then I am both loyal and stupid enough to believe that a promise is a promise, and that “integrity” includes keeping one’s promises, especially in the face of adversity. So, if I promise fidelity to one woman, by God, the Universe, and Everything, I’m going to keep that promise.
I have never seen or heard of a woman “witholding sex” to control men. It’s such a laughable idea. And it’s fine hearing you make this grandiose claim about fidelity but you keep saying things that make everyone else think that this is merely lip service to the ideal or a statement said to get women to like you.
I also have always had a large sex drive – I was hitting on my babysitters when I was 4 years old for goodness sakes. Even now in my mid-50′s the fires of passion still burn hot in me.
THIS LINE IS SO UNINTENTIONALLY FUNNY THAT I CANNOT STOP LAUGHING. I cannot for the life of me think of anything to say that will mock or improve on this line for sheer ridiculousness. So I am going to have to leave it here for you to bask in it’s glorious stupidity.
The combination of these two factors mean that I would be extremely vulnerable to a wife to wanted to manipulate me by denying sex – I’d have no recourse in law or morality. A man who coerces a woman into sex is viewed as a rapist, but a woman who coerces a man by withholding sex is a feminist hero?
You go, grrl. Out of my house. NOW. And no, I am not going to marry you, bitch.
Apparently this MRA is basically Pavlov’s dog.
I have never (and this is after spending years of celibacy) been so desperate for sex that a woman could have said “do my Taxes” or “Set Up My Computer” and I would have done it.
The worst bit about MRAs is that they themselves are a great detriment to men. This idea harms men and portray us as mindless beings who will fuck anything with a pulse rather than being more complex than that.
2. You won’t have to lose your vintage porn collection.
My first college girlfriend got me a subscription to Playboy magazine for my birthday in 1978, and although we broke up my senior year, I collected issues of the magazine until the spring of 1992, when my cohabiting girlfriend at that time discovered them and had an extreme screaming meltdown. She kept screaming for hours as I hauled them out to a dumpster. Then, she withheld sex for six months as a punishment for my transgression. I loved her dearly but her jealousy never waned, and eventually I had to break with her, as I was unwilling to live my life in a constant state of sexual starvation.
Funny thing is most Feminists I know of are “pro” porn as long as its not the skeezy exploitative stuff. A lot of women watch porn and indeed there is a rising amount of porn and erotica aimed at women. 50 Shades of Grey outsold Harry Potter. Women are just as “dirty” as men are.
Perhaps if you dated people who were similar to you rather than simply dating people who fit into a checklist of aesthetics you may find someone with similar tastes.
3. You can drive any car that suits your fancy.
Until I became comfortable with the notion of Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW), I often chose my car with an eye toward the sort of woman it might attract. This left me with several expensive, high-maintenance models that looked pretty but didn’t suit me. I didn’t like the cars, either.
I now drive the perfect car for me – a 2004 Prius with moderate hail damage. My Prius is now old enough and ugly enough that it is a total chick-repellent. The hail damage increases the gas mileage to the point where I can drive from Dallas to Chicago on one or two tanks of gas, perfect for the day I become a MGTOW ghost – and, it is whisper-quiet at low speeds, so quiet that later models had to addfaux engine noises for safety reasons.
Of course, if you get married, your wife will withhold sex until you buy her a gas-guzzling, planet-killing SUV so that she will feel slightly safer when she totals it. She’ll hate your car, whatever it is you drive.
Women can’t drive and want men to buy them expensive cars. AMIRITE GAIZ?
4. You won’t have to compromise your religious beliefs, or lack thereof.
Although my mixed-up family has deep Catholic/Lutheran roots, I’ve been an atheist since early childhood. I hear no voices in my head, divine or otherwise. Technically, I think I’m actually a non-coherentist agnostic, in that God-talk is largely nonsensical to me, but when you say “agnostic”, many believers (particularly here in the Bible Belt where I live) take that as an invitation to regale you with whatever voodoo is talking in their heads that day. My inaccurate claim to atheism is safer in the sense that it allows me to be written off as a lost cause without having to engage in gobbledygook.
Women, in my experience, are much more “spiritual” than men, in that their overwhelming anxieties drive them to seek comfort and support through faith. I don’t fault them (much) for that, but I sure as hell don’t want to marry it, or compromise my professed faith to placate hers.
Actually it’s because atheist women don’t want anything to do with your odious movement that doesn’t seek to help men but make life worse for women.
5. You won’t have to watch/hold/carry/rebuild her fucking purse.
Dealing with a woman means being subjected to “female redecoration syndrome” – her constant, endless drive to change both her husband and her environment, and her oblivious dismissal of her man’s reluctance to do stupid things on her behalf. Reasonable things one might be able to work out with a reasonable woman (if such could be found), maybe, but going shoe-shopping with her when she already has a closet full of shoes? No, thank you.
You dont have to go shopping if you don’t want to. You are a bloody adult. She isn’t going to break up with you because you don’t like shopping and she does.
Now she is interested in the stereotype of shoes. Okay. So what?
I will say this. Tiga is not “A Nerd”. Her entire idea of “nerds” comes from The Big Bang Theory. Okay it’s not quite how we are and it’s making fun of “us” but it’s also humanised us. She “doesn’t get” some stuff I am passionate about. She wants Jewellery not the new Pokemon game when it comes out.
And that’s fine. She kind of gets that I don’t have “normal” interests. That some days I am more interested in playing games with friends. That I am passionate about stuff that she has no idea about.
And while she tries to participate in those parts of my life and while I try to participate in her things, we both realise we will have tastes that don’t match. And rather than grate because of those differences you can use them to keep life interesting.
And there is nothing wrong with holding a woman’s purse. Unless you believe that the mere act of contact with women’s accessories will require you to hand in your testicles and your man card.
6. You can undertake risky ventures without being undermined by your wife.
8 years ago an artistic entertainment district that I loved was falling on hard times just as my corporate career reached an impasse. So, I dumped my house and job and started my own entertainment business in that district. No woman would have tolerated a man who was as married to my business as I was (and continue to be) – women love commitment until it becomes slightly inconvenient for them. I know this in part because my live-in girlfriend enthusiastically supported my new business venture right up to the point where she bailed out 4 months in.
Now, I can gloat – the district is now thriving and the NYSE-listed corporation I left died in January, and my work has brought me a bit of respect. The girlfriend found a new man, picked up his meth habit, and was in prison when I last checked.
Because heaven forbid you discuss things with the other person in your life rather than just doing stuff at whim.
7. Your vacation time is your own.
I dislike vacationing intensely – maybe I’ve got a touch of Obsessive-Compulsive tendencies or some such, but I’m happiest when I’m working steadily and routinely. Vacationing with a wife would be agony for me even if we could agree where to go (no chance of that), and letting a wife vacation without you is marital suicide.
That’s just you mate. The rest of us like vacations.
8. You won’t be humiliated in public by someone you loved and trusted.
When withholding sex fails to move you, or maybe she just nuts out one day, but women cannot seem to resist the urge to humiliate their husbands in public, rat on their sex lives, or whatever. Such behavior is a deep betrayal of the trust one should invest in one’s significant other, but I’ve never seen any woman ever be able to maintain the slightest degree of discretion about her husband’s quirks, foibles, or personal secrets.
None of my quirks, foibles and personal secrets are anything to embarrassed about.
Want to know a secret? Something not very macho?
I cook well. Like “Physioproffe” well. I love watching cooking shows. I bake too. Again “pretty well”.
Okay that’s not a bad secret. Something bad.
I secretly hate some of my patients because they come in late and have terrible compliance and give excuses. Such as the patient who’s kid was morbidly obese and who’s mother kept defending her actions. I wanted to shake her and scream “You are killing your son. It’s not healthy! Your excuses are killing him”.
Okay another one?
I genuinely felt tears in my eyes at some really sad parts of TV Shows or News. The ones that were the most “touching” were the Full Metal Alchemist proposal and the death of Hughes particularly when the line “It’s raining” comes up.
I feel a complete sense of peace when I watch MASH, if there is one person I wanted to be when I grew up it was Hawkeye Pierce.
9. You won’t have to serve as your wife’s proxy thug.
Women love using and testing their men by having them perform acts of violence at their behest – this gives women protection and deniability in the ensuing physical and legal melées. We see echoes of this whenever some feminist idiot wanders in here and demands we do something – anything – to stop rape, or online harassment, or whatever other bug just crawled up her thigh. This damsel-in-distress trope is nothing more than the bullshit manipulation of men; it criminalizes men and robs women of their agency.
The same group of people who harassed Anita Sarkeesian for saying that.
But then the MRA just take a massive turn into crazy town.
I fear you are confusing men with Pokemon. Women do not take their men out on the weekends to battle them.
I like the fact that male on male violence is somehow the fault of women. To date I have never met one woman who “Likes” it when their boyfriend fights and is violent.
10. You won’t suffer the marriage tax penalty – or subsidize her shoe collection.
Marriage is an economic disaster for men – not only in divorce, alimony and child support, but also in a happy marriage. Women rarely deign to marry impoverished men, or even men who earn less than they do. This means that those “lucky” married men suffer double-extra taxation – not only will your wife burn though your money, but the federal tax structure (in the US, anyway) is generally higher for the married than for two single people.
This is to tax married couples who earn above a certain amount since they don’t require the benefit and indeed are benefitted in other cost saving ways (It’s cheaper to live together than to be apart).
You would have to earn $87,850 EACH to pay more taxes as a marrieid couple than as independants.
The AVERAGE household income in the USA is $44,000. Now the problem here is that there are “hyper riich” people dragging this value up. SO we should look at the Median. The Median is $30,000 or there about.
In order to “pay more taxes as a couple” you would have to earn nearly three times the entire household of the median per person. You would have to earn $175700.
The majority of human beings in the USA will never come close to this income.
11. You won’t have to suffer her physical assaults on you.
The current feminist culture supports the right of women to physically assault men at any time for any reason. There may be good explanations for this from evolutionary psychology – women hit men when men show some emotional weakness as a way to get them to “man up” in the face of the woman’s need for a strong protector. Men are shamed and discouraged from reporting these assaults, and state and federal laws driven by the Duluth Model of gender violence often result in the arrest of battered men, rather than the women who attacked them.
The rate at which men are subjected to spousal violence is a lot lower than the rate at which women are exposed.
In addition, the culture of shaming men who are abused is not due to women but due to men.
If the MRA had any inkling to help men they would be trying and improve the laws to be more gender neutral and to provide help for men too. Sadly they are too busy ranting about marriage.
Okay, a confession. I started this piece and halfway through read another article that was so horrific that I simply cannot joke about this anymore. I shall be covering that tomorrow. I would rank this on the scale of the hate mail I got last week.