Do Not Engage

For those who are more into the skeptical side of “A Million Gods” and let’s face it, I am kind of the jack of all trades of FTB with no “real” emphasis. Well apart from when I need to cut lose on a medical topic!

If you are aware of this there is a list of names of people going about of names of people Anti-vax simply shouldn’t engage in a debate.

I wasn’t interested in other names on the list but the name that amused me the most was mine. At the time it was at the very bottom of the list (I assume I was the latest addition) but I suspect it to have grown. You see, this was around the time I began suggesting that before we discuss vaccinations we should first discuss “immunity”. After all? We cannot discuss aeroplane manufacture without aerodynamics. One cannot really discuss “vaccination” without immunology.

I am banned from the AVN. Pro-actively I assume. I haven’t posted on their stuff to my knowledge. I wear it as a badge of pride.

Oh by AVN, I mean Australian Vaccination Network not the accountancy firm or Adult Video News. I am not banned by either of those two people. I am still allowed to discuss accountancy and pornography.

But vaccines? Nope. I have had to deal with every argument possible including one very racist one “Why are you providing healthcare to Indians? Don’t you know they believe in Karma and you are interfering with it?” and if only “Indians weren’t so filthy”.

So we go full circle back to the AVN who are pushing back. This time harassing the GPs with conscientious objector forms (I don’t think they understand conscientious objections since vaccination is not a decision of conscience like the taking of life during war) that don’t make sense. First let’s look at the AVN’s “gloating” on this.

I fear that we have to add the word “Wisdom” to the list of anti-vax terms that don’t mean what they think it means.

Medical doctors, their professional bodies such as the AMA and the RACGP and our government health officials all want to be able to tell us that they care more about our children then we do. They want to be able to tell us that we MUST vaccinate our children even if we think that it would harm them. They want to maintain their lucrative monopoly on healthcare, excluding all others no matter how safe and effective they have proven to be and no matter how many people want to avail themselves of these remedies.

The Australian Medical Association is opposed to the AVN due to the AVN’s stances on vaccination and due to “bullying” tactics utilised by the AVN to force doctors to “Tell them the truth” and then go “AHA! Vaccines are not 100% safe and 100% effective!”. In other news? Neither are seatbelts.

Now anti-vax dislike the AMA because the AMA refuses to recognise quacks. And thus quacks must destroy the validity of the AMA. They cannot “get” validity of their own so they must drag other people’s valid stances into the mud under the guise of “patient choice”. The doctors the AVN like to quote can only be called doctors if we denigrate the very meaning of the word “Doctor”.

Mainstream medicos now say they believe that vaccines don’t protect the individual unless, through some sort of unscientific mumbo-jumbo EVERYONE receives them. Then, magically, everyone will be protected – because they say so. The reason for this being that we have more people vaccinated then we’ve ever had before and yet, the fully vaccinated are coming down with these diseases in record numbers. Since vaccination cannot be to blame – the villain must be the healthy unvaccinated, right?

Evidence Based Medicine is the full name of “Medicine”. It’s called that because of “what works”. We actually don’t know how some stuff works. For instance? Quinines used to treat malaria? No one knows how they work. Just that they do work. So we still use the drug.

However? Not one of the so called doctors the AVN like to bandy about come from fields such as “chiropractic” and “homeopathy” which are not based on evidence and produce effects (In the case of Chiropractic) that are worse than the placebo (That’s right. Chiro has an injury rate while the placebo doesn’t)

Actually? Vaccination rates have dropped in Australia where there is a sizeable anti-vax movement. Infact my first anti-vax pieces were against Dr. Viera Schiebner who is routinely bandied about as a DOCTOR by the anti-vax.

She is a Doctor of Geology. Making her stances on immunology as valid as the plumber’s stances on electric wiring.

The Western medical industry has overseen the largest increase in disabled and chronically-ill children ever. Through their poor stewardship, we now have 1 child in 6 who is learning disabled and 1 child in 50 who is autistic. 1 in 3 of our children is asthmatic and this current generation of children will be the first in living memory to have a shorter lifespan then their parents.

There is no such thing as “Eastern Medicine and Western Medicine”. There is evidence based medicine and there is bullshit.

We have seen the largest DECREASE in disabled and chronicallly-ill children in the history of mankind. The infant mortality rate in unvaccinated children without any medical assistance from “Depraved Western Medicine” is a whopping 120 per 1000 or HIGHER as we see in many African nations where there are no doctors. In Afghanistan a lack of doctors means that roughly 1 in 30 childbirths end in the death of the mother and a nation where childbirth is still a major cause of death. To ignore all these things is to grasp the benefits of medicine with both hands and somehow expecting all that stuff to not come back if we remove medicine.

1 in 6 children are learning disabled? THAT is news to me. The National Centre for Learning Disabilities in the USA gives the figure at around 1.7 percent. Roughly 1 in 50 children have a learning disability. And not all learning disabilities are crippling. Most are things like dyslexia where you can lead a normal life. 1 in 50?

The USA has a high rate of autism diagnosis with 1 in 88 children being diagnosed as autism spectrum. However this increase is due to administrative prevalence of doctors diagnosing kids who would have been diagnosed with learning disabilities and/or Mental retardation with autism. 10 years ago these kids would not have been autistic but would have been in another category. 50 years ago kids with LD would have been classed as MD/R (Mentally defective/retarded) and simply ignored. It’s just that today with the technology we have, we can teach autistic kids and many kids with learning difficulties to live long and productive lives.

There are doctors with dyslexia out there. 50 years ago these people would have been called morons and no one would have let them study. Why waste time learning stuff they cannot understand? Surely the inability to spell properly means the inability to study other things!

The AVN is simply wrong here. Asthma? Asthma rates are due to pollution. In fact our rates are going down due to the abolition of public smoking and improved air quality in cities due to the increasing standards of the automobile industry.

Oh and life expectancy has RISEN. It has consistently gone UP and UP. In fact the UK’s life expectancy is now so high that my retirement age will be 70. An age most Indians would never live up to. And our medical technology is so good that my aunt used to work as a doctor despite having no functioning kidneys. (She would go to work in the day, dialysis at night).

To claim our life expectancy is falling is just a lie probably perpetrated by the quack brigade. Life expectancy is falling? I am sure your magic water and fancy massages will help stop that!

Doctors want to be given absolute rights to do and say whatever they wish simply because they are doctors. They want to be respected as a result of their 8 years of pharmaceutically-provided education, yet they do not want to accept responsibility for the fact that people are leaving them in droves for more effective, safer and gentler natural therapies which have been around for hundreds or thousands of years longer than drug-based medicine. People are not stupid – they know what words and what does not and they are tired of being killed and maimed in the name of pharmaceutical profits.

Actually? Doctors have extremely strict laws with regards to what they can and cannot say. We have all sorts of laws protecting patients and part of the problem that modern doctors have is an enormous amount of paperwork and liability.

That’s not a bad thing (although I wish we had more help with the paperwork).

We are not responsible for the fact that “people are leaving in droves” for quacks who portray themselves as doctors in order to flog either extremely dubious treatments or high dangerous ones with the false promises that these are indeed more “effective”, “safer” and natural. Of particular note is the statement that vaccination is a new form of medicine by the Homeopaths. The first vaccine’s use was demonstrated prior to 1796 with the first vaccine for public use being developed in 1796, the same year that Homeopathy began under Samuel Hahnemann.

The same “natural therapies” have repeatedly proven to be ineffective and many have claimed the lives of those who took them such as the death of Steve Jobs. Ironically? Bill Gates has done more to save the lives of millions across the globe by donations to genuine medicine practiced in Africa and Asia while Steve Jobs initial fascination with quackery probably cost him his life and was used to champion a variety of treatments that cost the lives of others.

And people aren’t stupid. But people are ignorant. And with ignorance comes stupidity. There is a level of ignorance at which one is so ignorant that they cannot detect their own ignorance. They are so “stupid” that they don’t realise that they are doing things that are harmful to themselves or others. The problem with anti-vaccine lobbyists is when you demonstrate this stupidity and the vast gap of knowledge that they lack to discuss the topic they usually respond with the tired old arguments of “Shill” and “Lies” and what have you.

If people knew what works they would fear salt, sugar and fat. All of us would be fit and run everyday. I wouldn’t have eaten all those pies.

The fact is that the AVN and the entire anti-vax propaganda system works through the mythos of empowerment. Why should you listen to experts? Aren’t you smart enough? I know I am! If you listen to doctors you must be STUUUUPIIIIIDDD! Only smart people listen to me!

Now there are two problems to this. The science of medicine is so far removed from the current education system that it may as well be wizardry. It’s not an easy subalject to learn and it’s inaccessible. So we have dumbed down websites online to help patients get information.

The AVN masquerade as these and also flog the notion that you can simply use those websites to take care of yourself. No need for doctors. It’s a scam!

Hence me having met Americans who insisted that they had ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) despite having the ability to concentrate on problems more than me. I guarantee you this, if you read the Merck Manual or Web MD you would find at least one syndrome that depicts your normal state of being. A patient who  self-diagnoses has a fool for a doctor. I feel the american medical system has a flaw in that over-diagnosis is safer than under-diagnosis due to a culture of suing for damagers mixed in with a hospital system that thrives on disease rather than health. It is better and more profitable to turn normalcy into pathology.

Oh dear!

See  the AVN are trying to make doctors sign legally binding documentation that they don’t have to sign or they won’t let their kids be vaccinated.

If you went to your gym and said “Sign this document about sprains before I use your running machine” and see how quickly they give you a membership.

Why are we not willing to sign this document?

Because I was educated by the Admiral Ackbar School of Pointing Obvious Stuff out. It’s a Trap.

1. I will not agree to vaccinate or treat any patient if they are not present in the clinic UNLESS it’s an Emergency and I am being called out under the notion that emergency care is required. I will not make treatment plans for healthy patients who are not in the room as one person’s “idea” of health is different from mine. I have had too many “Healthy” people show up needing to have their feet amputated thanks to uncontrolled diabetes to agree to this. Without a proper consultation you should not accept responsibility for a patient.

2. If you do not pay for my services as a doctor then that makes you a thief. You may not like the service rendered or you may take iinsult to the service rendered but the services have been rendered and you must pay the price. I will not sign documentation that lets you fuck off without paying. It’s basic common sense.

3. Even if explained how antibodies work can the anti-vax understand it? I submit that they cannot. It would be like explaining theoretical physics to a horse. They lack the very basic knowledge of immunity and immunology. And one can prove that immunity is linked to antibodies with a simple example of AIDS. AIDS destroys the specific immune system. If the non-specific immune system were more important, AIDS sufferers would not die so easily and to such “harmless” pathogens. Antibody titres for RBCs are so effective that RBC clumping occurs in seconds during blood cross matching and we have a group of people demanding to see effectiveness of antibody titre.

4. When you ask doctors to provide scientific data RIGHT NOW! Is like insisting Usain Bolt sprint the 100m after barging into his bedroom. There is a time and a place and preparation must occur. And I will tell doctors this. Save your breath. I have provided reams of support for vaccination ranging from the historical extinction of smallpox to measles rates in a variety of countries but Anti-Vax won’t ever listen to any data that supports medicine. They don’t understand immunity, they don’t understand statistics or comprehension. Even if you could guarantee proof they would not believe it. There is nothing you can do, the only thing that will change their mind is the unfortunate lash of disease. And even then many of them won’t admit their fault..

It is why we must fight and provide education at an earlier stage. It’s why we must keep arguing against them lest they have it their way. Anti-vax are strong in Australia because they got a foothold and the price of that is increased deaths due to pertussis and other diseases.


  1. yoav says

    The reduced life expectancy claim is probably taken from the predictions that, particularly in the US, the prevalence of childhood obesity and all the health problems that are associated with it mean that unless they improve their diet these kids would be more likely then previous generation to die young. Clearly this has absolutely nothing to do with vaccines but it’s not like it would be the first time antivaxers have misrepresented medical data and/or just lied to further their cause of making shitloads of money.

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