Dragon Force

Ken Ham is “low hanging fruit”. It’s fun to laugh at him because some of his arguments are just “terrible”.

Today’s is no different. Not only is the Earth 6000 odd years old and all of us have come out of the super incest that was Noah but Dragons also existed.

“So the valiant knight slew the fire-breathing dragon and rode off with the beautiful princess to the castle. And they lived happily ever after.”

“Daddy, that was a great story! But are dragons real?”

“No, honey. There’s no such thing as dragons. That’s all make-believe. Close your eyes now. Sweet dreams!”

It starts with this little story. Yes there are no such things as dragons. Considering the size of our idea of dragons and their capability of flight? You would have  to invoke some mad magic to get that to work.

Does that mean dragons didn’t exist? Well yes and no. You see, I quite “like” visiting churches. I log the various relics. There are countless nails that were used to hold Christ on the cross (amusing considering the Romans tied people to them) and enough pieces of the true Cross to crucify a dozen sons of Jehovah. There are many saints who have more than two arms thanks to this.

And among all these one of the weirdest relics was t he skull of St. George’s dragon.

It’s a Crocodile skull. I believe the idea of dragons came from the descriptions of creatures such as the crocodile  and indeed the preserved fossils of dinosaurs.

However, they aren’t magical. No matter how much Ken Ham claims.

There are other relics of this sort.

Yes. It’s the Skull of a Cyclops. AKA an Elephant to you and me. People used to display these in Greece since most Europeans had never seen an elephant.

Dragons and Humans—Together?

For evolutionists, legends of men slaying dragons must be mythical because their timeline has creatures like dinosaurs die out over 60 million years before humans existed. But dragon accounts aren’t easy to dismiss as mere fantasy.

Dragons are memorialized in legends, historical accounts, and artwork from around the world. To name a few, there’s an Aboriginal depiction of a water monster that resembles a plesiosaur, an ancient historical account of serpents in Egypt with bat-like wings, the epic poem Beowulf with its account of a fiery flying serpent, and Native American petroglyphs (etchings in stone) that resemble dragons. Dragons are depicted on flags, emblems, tapestries, maps, pottery, pictographs, and more.

Actually no…

The design of western dragons is entirely diifferent to eastern dragon and their mythos varies. In usage of Beowulf to validate the Dragon also means equal validation to Grendel.

And I repeat. Crocodile Skulls often are portrayed as “Dragons” in the same way that Elephant skulls were used to portray the cyclops. We now know how foolish it is.

To date no fossil or remains of any “dragon” has been found on any strata occupied by mankind. They are separated by 60 million odd years of life.

Although from disconnected cultures, the descriptions are remarkably similar—perhaps because dragons were real? Find out more at the Creation Museum’s new dragon exhibit. Filled with colorful artwork and artifacts, intriguing dragon legends, and a couple of 60-foot-long Chinese dragons, this exhibit asks visitors the question, “Were dinosaurs dragons?”

The stupidity. It’s overwhelming!

I repeat. This museum should not recieve tax payer funding for actively discussing the existence of Winged Fucking Magical Monsters. We may as well chuck in the book and start museums dedicated to the proof that Porphyria is Vampirism.

Starting with the Bible

Biblical creationists are not surprised by artifacts depicting dragons or the worldwide accounts of dragons living among men—that idea is consistent with the Bible. Genesis 1 tells us that on Day Five of Creation God created great “sea creatures” (Hebrew word tanninim, a word we’ll explore below) and flying creatures, so this would have included swimming pliosaurs and flying pterodactyls, which we would call dragons. God made land animals, including dinosaurs and other land dragons, on Day Six, the day He created man. So man lived among these awesome creatures from the beginning.

Except no depiction of a dragon looks remotely like a pterodactyl or for that matter a pliosaur. I mean this is looking at “the evidence”.

The physical structure of these beasts do not fit the depiction.

And if that is the case… why are there no four “pillar legged” dragons or dragons that walk on two legs with big heads and tiny hands?

Does the Bible mention dragons? Used multiple times in Scripture, the Hebrew word tannin is defined by The Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon as “serpent, dragon, sea-monster.” It likely refers to certain reptiles, including giant marine creatures and serpentine land animals. Though translated several different ways and differing in precise meanings based on context, tannin can denote a dragon and therefore can potentially refer to a dinosaur since all dinosaurs are dragons (though not all dragons are dinosaurs by definition). This semi-technical article lists all the uses of tannin in Scripture.

Even Nessie turned out to be a hoax.

The new dragon exhibit virtually fills the large portico of the Creation Museum with dragons and dragon-related displays!

Why isn’t tannin translated as “dragon” in more recent English versions? Perhaps it’s because secular ideas have influenced even biblical scholars. For example, we see scholars indent Genesis 1, implying it is poetry instead of literal history (such as the NIV); we find that translations list elephant or hippopotamus in the footnotes in Job 40 when discussing behemoth. Let’s look closer at the behemoth to give you some context. In the book of Job, God describes the behemoth that “eats grass like an ox” and “moves his tail like a cedar” with bones that “are like beams of bronze” The beast the passage describes fits well with something similar to a sauropod dinosaur like Brachiosaurus.

Or you know… that other gargantuan land mammal with massive bones. The elephant.

Next, God describes at length a leviathan, a fire-breathing sea monster with impenetrable scales that none could face except its Creator. Read Job 41 and see if you picture a ferocious marine reptile, like a Kronosaurus. Leviathan is mentioned in five passages of Scripture and is identified as a type of tannin in Psalm 74:13–14  and Isaiah 27:1
. Dragons are real—created creatures, some of which terrorized in the waters and others that roved the land and air.


And how does it breathe fire?

I mean any creature with the ability to breath fire is a creature that’s very very prone to exploding. The bombardier beetle uses catalysis of two compounds to create it’s “flamethrower” but that’s not “fire”. I suppose it’s “magic”.

So How Are Dinosaurs Explained?

The word dinosaur wasn’t even around until scientist Sir Richard Owen introduced it in the mid-1800s. Before then, large reptiles were called dragons. But the term dinosaur is more narrow, referring only to reptilian land animals whose hip structures raise them off the ground. So dinosaurs, we would say, are specific types of dragons.

Actually, most people didn’t know what to make of them. And dinosaurs aren’t reptiles. They are more closely related to birds.

But Fire-Breathing? Come On!

The burden against the beasts of the South. Through a land of trouble and anguish, From which came the lioness and lion, The viper and fiery flying serpent, They will carry their riches on the backs of young donkeys, And their treasures on the humps of camels, To a people who shall not profit. (Isaiah 30:6)

Many dragon legends such as what we find outside the Bible could be embellished, but the basic characteristics of dragons can be found in known creatures. Some dragon descriptions fit well with certain dinosaurs. Fossil pterosaurs reveal dragon-like wings. Certain beetles shoot out burning chemicals, so is a fire-breathing dragon really that far-fetched?


We don’t store “fire” in a bottle. We store fuel in a bottle. We can store poison in a bottle. So it’s easier to spray “poison” than it is to spray fire. Also? Any chemical volatile enough to combust with air on contact is not going to survive in an organism that relies on oxygen to survive.

What Happened to the Dragons?

Land and air dragons would have been taken on Noah’s Ark and probably existed for some time afterward, based on the descriptions we see in the Bible and legends and artifacts worldwide. But they died out due to the curse of sin, with factors such as environmental and habitat changes, food source problems, genetic mutations, and diseases. Also, man most likely played a role in the demise of dragons, as we read in the legends of dragon slayers.

It amazes me that Ken Ham is right. Dinosaurs vanished due to genetic mutations. The mighty T-Rex died but the delicious Chicken lives on.

Also Ken Ham forgets that man would have probably tried to ride the damn things or keep them as pets. To claim that all dinosaurs vanished is to forget that the majority of dinosaurs were “small”. The true giants were rarities. IF the giants died out then why did all the small ones vanish? All of them? Simultaneously?

And again. Not one dinosaur fossil has been found with a man made object being responsible for it’s death.

It’s just such a laughable idea really.

A Deadly Dragon Is Still Prowling!

We have a very real enemy who is called a dragon (Revelation 12:9). His trickery led the human race into sin, and he’s still deceiving and devouring today (1 Peter 5:81 John 5:19). In 1 John, we find an unsettling test that divides people into one of two camps—the children of the devil or the children of God:

Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:8–10, ESV)

You cannot defeat this dragon on your own. As prophesied in Genesis 3:15, we needed Jesus to crush the head of this serpent. Through repentant faith in Christ and His work on the Cross and Resurrection from the dead, we can become children of God (John 1:12). Then we can rejoice with the Apostle John as overcomers “because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world” (1 John 4:4).

I thought he was a snake? Are snakes dragons too? Wasn’t he a Cherub as well?

It’s actuallly amazing. Through this entire article Ken Ham has managed to do something remarkable.

To Utter the Truth Without Realising It.


  1. slc1 says

    Dinosaurs vanished due to genetic mutations.

    Huh? Unless I missed something, the current prevailing hypothesis is that the dinosaurs supposedly went extinct due to an asteroid collision 65.5 million years ago. AFAIK, the only reputable dissenter from that theory is paleontologist Jim Bakker.

  2. Psychopomp Gecko says

    In a sense, Chinese dragons were dinosaurs…in that the “dragon bones” they dug up and used in potions and whatnot were dinosaur bones.

    Belief so literal they have to try and insert dragons into history and the fossil record. The stupid almost takes my breath away. Should we start a pool on which fantasy creature he’s going to bring up next? I’m not sure whether to call walking skeletons or zombies, though I personally hope he brings up orcs sometime soon. That way my tombstone can read “Died in battle with Mudroc Bloodstone, King of the Orcs, saving Washington D.C. from the evil dragonriders.”

  3. IaneyMeaney says

    1) Dragon Force was a Sega Saturn game, and is not the band DragonForce. This invalidates any other statements you make, no matter how well thought out
    2) Video game consoles use semiconductors to function
    3) Semiconductors use the principles of quantum theory to operate
    4) Quantum theory does not appear anywhere in the Holy Scriptures

    1) Video game consoles are ungodly

  4. Rich Woods says

    @Psychopomp Gecko #4:

    That way my tombstone can read “Died in battle with Mudroc Bloodstone, King of the Orcs, saving Washington D.C. from the evil dragonriders.”

    Or you could just end up as a bloody splatter underfoot, as the first wave of fire-breathing pliosaurs lurch ashore from the Potomac. But never mind, your wall-walking soul-transporting persona will still be able to carry off your essential/immanent self to, um, er, …

  5. says

    Since defeating the creationist argument is best done by being scientifically accurate, there are some claims you make that aren’t entirely correct.

    1) “And dinosaurs aren’t reptiles. They are more closely related to birds.” – Dinosaurs are reptiles, and so are birds. That, or except that reptiles is polyphyletic. See also this. Also, birds are dinosaurs, or you must also except dinosaurs to be polyphyletic.

    2) “Dinosaurs vanished due to genetic mutations. The mighty T-Rex died but the delicious Chicken lives on.”
    No, dinosaurs didn’t vanish entirely, as birds are dinosaurs. The majority of dinosaurs died out as a result of environmental changes, probably as the result of the aftermath of the impact of a giant meteor. Replace “genetic mutations” with “environmental and habitat changes” (also in Ham’s text) and you’re more or less done.

    3) “the majority of dinosaurs were “small”. The true giants were rarities.”
    The majority of dinosaurs, or at least the majority of dinosaur species having been found today, were pretty large to today’s fauna standard. Even smallish dinosaurs could easily be the size of a horse, or bigger. Current day fauna is pretty small by comparison. In recent history, there have been occasional mega fauna, that may have been more dinosaur size on average. But it’s undeniable that dinosaurs could be pretty big. Imagine a seagul colony, but with 40 ft dinosaurs…

    4) “And again. Not one dinosaur fossil has been found with a man made object being responsible for it’s death”
    I would think the most conclusive and convincing evidence is the fact that no non-avalian dinosaurs have been found younger than 65Mya, while humans have been around for only 1Myr at most…

  6. methuseus says

    @Kilian Hekuis

    First of all, not everyone includes dinosaurs in the reptiles phylum. Dinosaurs and birds are generally two different groups. Very few people group birds in the reptiles phylum. Otherwise mammals would all be lizards as well. Some reptiles are more closely related to mammals than other reptiles, just as some reptiles are more closely related to birds than other reptiles. Everything I have read states that birds are descended from dinosaurs, but are not dinosaurs themselves.

    Now for your assertion that a majority of dinosaur species were huge. On the Wikipedia page for dinosaurs it states that “the idea that non-avian dinosaurs were uniformly gigantic is a misconception based on preservation bias, as large, sturdy bones are more likely to last until they are fossilized.” It’s generally accepted that, for much of their history, dinosaurs followed closely to how current mammals fill niches in that the vast majority were small, quickly reproducing species with some larger variants, especially in later epochs. The last dinosaurs were genuinely larger in general than current mammals, but that doesn’t take into account the hundreds of millions of years that smaller ones were the norm. It also had to do with the oxygen content of the atmosphere. Back then there was more oxygen which supported the larger creatures better.

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