Hags of Lag – *Thunderfoot doesn’t get Regressive Crap II – Electric Boogaloo


Well he is at it again!

I have been sat on this for a while because stuff kept happening that required me to run around and be busy. I just attended an all day medical conference (on Breast Cancer and Reconstruction) and figured I need to unwind a bit. (I do have a post about my conference and it is indeed “something for the men”, but today is about the ladies).

So Thunderfoot had my curiosity, and now he has my attention.

It also helps that I have a laptop now.

So let’s see what’s up this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGAvjwQPCHE&list=PLQJW3WMsx1q3BAZh3XsK1cSwCiaqjSulc&index=2

  1. I disagree with Anita. I don’t think this was an attempt to maintain the status quo of gaming. The “hater” archetype is too unfocusssed in hate for that. It’s just that Anita was planning to criticise games and this was the backlash. Or it may have started out as that. They lines drawn up may seem to preserve the male status quo of gaming but no gamer I am aware of wants to physically keep women from playing the games. What’s under threat is a way of life and a fear that this will bring “change”. Unknown change.
  2. There is a gaming community about playing games. Pop Quiz. What’s the difference between Team Fortress 2 and Bioshock Infinite? Both are games. Both are in the same genre of FPS. But what’s interesting is what people get out of the experience. TF2 is competitive. BIoshock tells you a story. The gaming community is about both these things. So what’s wrong about looking at the stories told. WE LAUD Bioshock’s take on free will and libertarianism as an exercise in free will. We are amazed by Infinite’s take on racism, how the very colours and heavenly nature of the art make us feel uneasy because it’s a facade of western slavery. We dealt with slavery in a game. We dealt with PTSD. We dealt with what it means to be a hero and a villain. So why the hell can’t we deal with sexism? If games are just about playing games then the beauty that is Bioshock is simply vasted on Thunderfoot. It’s like playing the most exquisite music to a hedgehog. If games are to be taken  as a serious art form then we have to move past the notion that games are just to play. Now, many gamers may not want to play a game that makes them “think”. But some do. Many people llisten to music to just dance to, but some listen to the meaning within the song. Both are music fans.
  3. Yes. What Anita did was throwing out troll bait. I agree here. However. If I also mentioned I was Indian or Jewish or Black or Gay it would also be troll bait. The fact of the matter is that gaming needs to clean up it’s trolls. I use the analogy of a football terrace. I love football. I bleed blue (Manchester City). I grew up watching them. Back when they were poor and at Maine Road. I had stuff yelled at me but I still went because I liked the game. The fans were fuckwits… But the fans CHANGED. We stamped the violence out. We stamped the racism out. Walking into a stadium aged 6 was “trolling”, but it helped CHANGE. It’s why I still consider football the beautiful game and why I can still be seen sat listening or even reading the highlights of the match. And all because Football Threw Out It’s Trolls. And is still doing so. The UK may have progressed, the rest of Europe plays catch up. The English Disease of hooliganiism and racism is dead(ish) in England. If football can do it so can videogames.
  4. I invite Thunderfoot to fuck off from playing videogames. Because he clearly is an embarassment to us. The response to “Hey! You  guys have some sexist problems” is “Really, let’s work them out” not “I WILL RAPE YOU” or “DIE BITCH”. Because that’s the very example of “sexism” that she is trying to fight. It’s like me saying that gamers are racist (And they are) and the response being “Die Paki Scum”.
  5. I am unaware of any time line Anita Sarkeesian has placed on us. In fact… I am pretty fucking sure that Anita Sarkeesian has no time line to stick to. And has in fact demonstrated returns on her kickstarter project. Now I am perfectly aware of the argument before she released her first video. It boiled down to “It’s been x months and still nothing!”. Now the argument is “It’s been x months and one video!”. There are other arguments such as “it doesnt’ look professional” and “it looks the same as before”. But the argument TF is specifically making here is that she isn’t releasing videos at the rate which pleases him. Because Anita works for him on a contracted project. Snickering about her lack of new videos is fucking stupid IMHO. She has a proven track record and if there is anything a videogamer understands it’s the price of rushed delivery.
  6. Clearly for the kind of money she has she should blow all of it on fancy graphics. Which actually brings me to another point. How many gamers remember that graphics don’t make the game. Some of the best games out there were graphically “bad”. Games are good, graphics just set the scene. The CONTENT is what matters. And yet again I point out the complaint about her content boils down to “I don’t like the mean things the lady is saying about my games so I am going to threaten her”.
  7. Troll indicates that they are doing it for the “lolz”. They did it to specifically bully her into not making the series. They are sexist wankers who are trying to prevent their chosen hobby from being criticised.
  8. Oh look! I totally fucking called it in my last post. She hasn’t changed her outfit, her coat and her ear rings. Because some people don’t have the kind of money to buy multiple jackets or have a few nice clothes that they rotate around. I have “one suit and one nice shirt and one nice shoes with a tie”. If Anita bought a different “outfit” I can bet money on Thunderfoot using the “She used the money from the kickstarter to go shopping. Because she is a wimmin and wimmin like to shop”.
  9. Except her Kickstarter and Youtube comments were filled with vile hate mail and “bashing her” was seen as the thing to do. I mean just look at a fucking mirror. You are giving her fucking fashion tips rather than engaging with her article which you cannot since the best you could do was a flimsy rant. You may not be the absolute scum of the Internet that set out to harass her but you certainly are wearing the same colours.
  10. The Internet “kindness” towards Anita Sarkeesian only began after your MRA fuckwits and the various “bad” gamers decided to harass her. This was described as an avalanche of abuse. She was emailed images of her being raped. Her accounts were hacked. Doctored images. She had a variety of threats made against her including a game where you could punch her. Her wikipedia article was repeatedl vadalised. Her website subject to DDOS attacks. And people were awarding each other points for such abuse. The “kindness” was for the same reason I was shown kindness on the terraces as a kid. Because the kid being abused broke something in the people who normally had no qualms with the racists around them and made them consider their actions. Likewise the abuse crossed a line and many neutral people said “Yes, she is right, gamers are racist/sexist/homophobic and we want to change that”.
  11. If Thunderfoot thinks gamers don’t discriminate against people of colour, gay people and everyone’s traditional group of hate (The Jews) then he is a fucking imbecile. That’s Gay. Fag. Bitch. Nigger. Kike. Paki. Jew… I have witnessed them. Fucking Koreans… I experience WORSE racism today in videogames than on the terraces of a football match.
  12. League of Legends explained that when the ONLY thing that matters is how well you play the game, then your game becomes unwelcoming to “the noobs”. People also made the same argument when they began to enforce rules for good behaviour. You see when the only thing that matters is the how well you play the game, you ignore all the other things that matter in real life. So let’s take LoL. It’s a team game. You need everyone to play well to win. So imagine if there was this great player and he helps you keep winning. But imagine if he calls everyone fags and cunts and says racist things. See… if you were only playing a game to win this person’s odious behaviour would be allowed as his skills prevent actual retribution. And that’s the PRECISE problem that Thunderfoot has. In his arena of wankers you could scream “nigger” into a mike on a loop and get away with it if you were winning. And that’s fucked up. That’s the state of the gaming community at the moment. It’s why it pleases me to see people like Riot try and encourage better behaviour in their games. The idea that somehow banning the fuckwits will bankrupt you worked under the assumption that all of us were like them. Banning the fuckwits makes for a better community which attracts more people to play the game.
  13. And let’s get this straight. Gamers who have matured in their tastes do like the single player aspect of games too. And Anita Sarkeesian wasn’t discussing the nature of Starcraft or LoL or DOTA or Call of Duty. She was not looking into the online abuse towards female players. She was lookiing at the way the plots of single player games was laid out in the same way that one would look into the plot of a movie.
  14. Your Clan is “not diverse”. Fuck a duck! That’s like saying “It’s okay to make a racist joke because you have a friend from that race and so aren’t a racist. I am sure your diverse group of friends wouldn’t have been so happy if you were actively discriminating against one of them.
  15. Knitting clubs accept men. Women don’t try and force men out of knitting clubs. In fact I can bet that the BIGGEST restriction to a man learning to knit is other men and what this man feels his “friends” would do if they found out. Going to a knitting club and demanding it was for men would just be met with puzzled stares of knitters going “It’s for everyone”. Knitters wouldn’t then knit you pornographic pictures of yourself or death threats (I assume they would knit you a noose). The fact that you think knitting is an exclusive female club may be true but the skill of knitting is available to all and the only reason why your hypothetical man doesn’t think he can go learn the skill is due to the peer pressure of other men who would mock a man who knits.
  16. You would be a shit stirring douche. Because you have no fucking intention of learning to knit. You just picked knitting as a battle you think you can win because none of your followers would dare admit to knitting because it’s for girls. Anita however PLAYED the games. She didn’t come in demanding women played games because WOMEN ALREADY PLAY GAMES. What she wants is women who do play to be treated better and female characters to stop being so fucking shit. There are GOOD FEMALE CHARACTERS IN GAMES. Fucking hell! It’s 2013! We have Elizabeth! We have the new revamped Lara Croft. Elizabeth is a great Damsel in Distress story. Lara Croft changes from powerless to powerful. That’s the kind of stuff she wants. She wants to step out of the tired old tropes and do something new and positive with our games.
  17. To invoke homophobia with the knitting analogy is to completely forget that one of the most common insults in games is “Fag” and “Gay”. That homophobia is rife within games and is pretty “normal” to hear such phrases bandied around. Unlike the knitting community which amusingly enough seems to be very pro-gay.
  18. So we should never do anything to challenge bigotry lest we irritate arseholes? Should I stop demanding that Hollywood actually cast Indians in Indian roles (KHAAAAN!) because white supremacists may get pissed off? See, Trolls do it for the lolz. JT Eberhard plays Leaague of Legends. He sometimes plays a troll team composition for fun. (All Yordle). FOR FUN BEING THE OPERATIVE WORD. So it means the people braying obscenities at Anita are trolls and should be fucking ignored because they aren’t representative of anything but “Population of DIckheads Online”. IF Anita were a one off we would give credence to the theory that her haters are “trolls” doing it for the “lulz”. However historically  such behaviour is well noted within the gaming community and gamers have excused sexist, racist and homophobiic behaviour like this for a long time during online play. So either it’s trolling and TF is a troll who has no actual argument apart from “I Do It For the Lolz”. Or TF is part of a group of people who are distinctly threatened by a group of videos about the single player aspect of games and the plots of games. In that regard Anita Sarkeesian is no different from Yahtzee in her analysis of the “game’s plot”.
  19. Don’t feed the trolls? Sage advice… If you want gaming to be forever this staid boring world of Call of Duty Clones. Fuck the Trolls. The trolls represent orthodoxy and they are the voices of “don’t want change”. They are the idiots who looked at the Nintendo Wii and giggled at it while thinking of polygons. (The Nintendo Wii was the winner of the previous console wars. Why? Because they made it the console for everyone. It may not have had the best controls or the best graphics of the coolest games. But it was the MOST FUN. And so it won. The trolls? The trolls still laugh at it because they are idiots. The trolls are stupid. That’s why we call them trolls.
  20. I repeat. Just last year a female pro gamer was subject to a torrent of abuse from her opponent to dissuade her from playing. To point out how insane the bigotry was, if she was African American her opponent would have been making slave jokes. He was literally making sexually charged comments to put her off her game. And that was acceptafuckingble by a significant portion of the gaming community.
  21. So… the calls by the “unaffiliated trolls” to get her sued by Kickstarter for not producing videos on their timeline were just everyone coincidentally having the same idea? Fuck me mate. I want whatever you are drinking because it clearly lets you see fairies.

That’s the thing. This entire video boiled down to “Don’t Feed the Trolls”. Which Thunderfoot translates to “Shut Up About My Games”. See Trolls thrive on hobbits and attention. So don’t give them any. Ignore them and they either go home or they self destruct. Anita’s trolls self destructed as their campaign PROVED a need for people like Anita to fight sexism within games.

Anita basically said “Hey, some tropes in games are sexist”. Some parts of the gamer community responded with “Sexist! We are not sexist! Take that back you fucking slut or we will rape you”. And then sat back smugly having proven that there is no sexism at all within the gaming community.

Anita may be a victim but you cannot be a victim without someone to victimise you and the gaming community provided such people in excess. Anita is but one person. The people who harassed her number in the thousands. I would be more worried about them being part of the community than some youtube videos.

Savvy?

Comments

  1. electrojosh says

    Good summary. I ended up unsubscribing to Thunderfoot’s channel over this issue. For some reason he seems unable to critically examine anything to do with feminism or sexism with rationality or looking at evidence. Instead he discards those tools and resorts to overly emotional responses and bizzare arguments. I honestly don’t know what to make of it as he was one of the first “youtube athiests” I discovered. Perhaps he should stick to battling pseudoscience because he is woefully (or, perhaps, wilfully) ignorant of anything else.

    The only positive thing about his criticisms of Anita? I went and watched the first video on tropes in games (to get context of TF’s response) and ended up subscibing to her channel. So I have to thank TF for getting me off his and onto her’s.

  2. says

    I resemble the above comment.

    I stopped watching T-00 after he stopped talking about science and creationism and got himself involved in stupid drama-llama wars with other ‘tubers, each successive video getting ever more pompous and grandiose. I would’ve been happy to ignore him but then as soon as he joined FtB, he dedicated his entire body of work to wilfully not understanding conference harassment policies, misrepresenting those who did understand them, presenting polls of his own subscribers as unbiased scientific evidence that he was right to be a fire-breathing misogynist and eventually sliding ever deeper into weird, selfish, pseudo-libertarian MRA-apologist swamp.

    Now it appears he’s shifted his entire schtick to blinding hatred of and a vendetta against FtB and anyone who even remotely understands, discusses or promotes a feminist outlook on anything. His gross, purposeful misreadings of his identified enemies’ positions (no matter how clearly laid out) and his narcissistic, snarling flame-outs make him resemble his old foes, the creationists, a little bit more every time he publishes some rant against feminism. He’s well on the road to being the Poster Boy for Misogynist Stupidity.

  3. says

    He’s well on the road to being the Poster Boy for Misogynist Stupidity.

    He’s already Mayor of the United Colony Of Misogynist Stupidity.

    Being from Toronto, it’s a guilty joy to see a mayor that makes me feel a little less embarrassed.

  4. ladydreamgirl says

    Wait, he said what about knitting? Has he ever met a knitter? Been to a knitting group? Seriously the worst I’ve seen in a knitting group is polite not really friendlyness between people whereas the worst I’ve seen of gaming groups, well it doesn’t really need saying. Also men totally are knitters and somehow they manage to get along in a female dominated hobby without getting rape threats.

  5. says

    QF: “Sexist! We are not sexist! Take that back you fucking slut or we will rape you. And then sat back smugly having proven that there is no sexism at all within the _____ community”.

    Can certainly think of at least two other communities this fits…. Not exactly the most compelling argument but at least in our community we have a dedicated group of “sceptics” to explain to us that “slut” has an etymology that means it cannot possibly be sexist. Also obviously whoever said it was a troll and they don’t count because reasons that spread to multiple pages over the period of multiple years.

  6. gratch says

    I haven’t watched the TF video yet because I’m at work, I’ll watch it later I guess. But there are knitting groups with men. I’m a man and I’ve been doing embroidery and cross stitch since 8th grade. In fact, I’m a member of an online crafts community (spritestitch.com) that makes various crafts of video games from across NES to today. There’s cross stitch, knitting, bead work, even stained glass. The forum is very active with people of both genders from all over the world who love to craft and game. We even do a group effort to make a cool gamer quilt we donate to Child’s Play Charity every year.

  7. says

    There are two men in my knitting club. It was my grandfather who tried to teach me to knit. Hell, my knitting club even lets me in, and I crochet.

    I’d love to do more with the social aspects of my XBox live and Steam accounts, but I play games for relaxation and enjoyment. If I wanted folks to scream at me that I was a slut and that I needed to ‘tits or gtfo’, I’d go jogging.

  8. garnetstar says

    Don’t feed the trolls? Isn’t that what Thunderf00t’s anti-creationism videos do?

    If “feeding the trolls” (meaning, speaking out against irrationality and immorality) is counterproductive and useless, he should take all those videos down and apologize.

    Or, apologize, anyway.

  9. loofasword says

    Being from Toronto, it’s a guilty joy to see a mayor that makes me feel a little less embarrassed.

    Tf00t and His Bumblefuckness should totally share a pipe together. The would have so much to discuss.

  10. CaitieCat says

    I keep thinking that if I could come up with a way to do it that wouldn’t draw down the assembled legions of misogyny and homophobia on my head, I’d love to start a progressivist games club. Have a forum where progressives could find one another and get together to game online, without having to fear their playing partners. I even have a name for it: Gamely Onward (also, it makes the name of a game with its acronym, and I reckon gamers will like that).

    What I just don’t have are the guts to stand up and take the crap that Anita took for my efforts, and being trans, there’s an additional level of evil to fear: doxxing my long-discarded birth name to kill my business (I’m self-employed, and work under my real name, with a clientele that tends to the conservative – in fact, many of my clients are devout Muslims, and my business would be in danger of collapse if I got doxxed).

    Also, while I’m talking about fantasies, I’d like a pony, and a million dollars, and some Kraft Dinner. And maybe some Dijon ketchup.

  11. StillAwake says

    …SO ANGRY…!
    I couldn’t make that video to the end!
    One point that stood out to me that I didn’t get out of your article was Stutterf00t pulling his usual strawmanning.
    What Anna Did: Plan to create a series of videos about how the gaming industry portrays women in video games
    What happened next: The gaming community went in to misogyny avalanche mode.
    What Stutterf00t took offense at/defended: How all that matters in the gaming community is how well you play the game, not what minority you are.

    Anna never went out to attack the community, they attacked her (in my mind demonstrating very clearly why there is a problem…). Stutterf00t makes it sound like it was her mission all along to try and change the behaviour of the gaming community to suit her “social whims” (as he puts it). It’s like he has no idea what she actually set out to do… but he attacks her as if she’s the most unreasonable person on the planet…

  12. dblbassbill says

    “Don’t feed the trolls? Sage advice… If you want gaming to be forever this staid boring world of Call of Duty Clones. Fuck the Trolls. The trolls represent orthodoxy and they are the voices of “don’t want change”. They are the idiots who looked at the Nintendo Wii and giggled at it while thinking of polygons. (The Nintendo Wii was the winner of the previous console wars. Why? Because they made it the console for everyone. It may not have had the best controls or the best graphics of the coolest games. But it was the MOST FUN. And so it won. The trolls? The trolls still laugh at it because they are idiots. The trolls are stupid. That’s why we call them trolls.”

    like the post but this i have trouble with . while the nintendo wii did outsell the 360 and ps3 in the number of consoles sold, the attach rate on it was abysmal. because it was old crappy tech it was cheap so many gamers could pick it up just for curiosity , as i did. then after purchasing it were limited to the few first party titles that were good. as far as it being the most fun i call bull on that, it had one gimmick the motion stuff, but was lacking in other areas such as its online and friend management. both its competitors quickly released their own more superior motion controls taking away the only area it was better. this console sold well because it was cheap, had a new exclusive feature, and got on oprah.
    the comments about polygons were quite fair, for at the time of launch the current consoles still had to make hard choices about where to allocate the graphical power. more enemies on screen or better looking enemies. this was not a time where games looking near photo realistic at 480p were a dime a dozen. So if you saw a multi console game on your friends ps3 and then purchased the wii version you got a big disapointment.(the only sort of port from another system i tried was dead rising and not just worse graphics, worse gameplay.)
    i wish the trolls would have worked harder to prevent me from getting that console, i still feel burned from that purchase.

  13. spike13 says

    Stupid question,but,
    Doesn’t commenting on Anita’s efforts ( or Rebecca’s or Ophelia’s…etc.) with “rape a bitch” bombast or clothing analysis make her point for her?

  14. says

    I can’t bring myself to watch TF’s vid.

    These days he doesn’t even rise to “bully” status. He seems like that kid on the playground who sees blood in the water and just joins in the mindless mob.

    I think Carrier’s making the case that he is a Sociopath jumped the shark a bit (in framing, not in content necessarily); but TF has issues.

    Think about this – his series that made him famous? – He just mocked some Creationist kid. Instead of targeting the big-wigs like Terry Mortenson or Ken Ham or that crew; he attacked and ridiculed some kid.

  15. says

    Think about this – his series that made him famous? – He just mocked some Creationist kid. Instead of targeting the big-wigs like Terry Mortenson or Ken Ham or that crew; he attacked and ridiculed some kid.

    To be fair, he did attack (both) Hovind(s) as well.

    I don’t think anyone can really dispute the other parts of that post though.

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