A Voice for Me – Judgy Bitch 2 – Electric Blogaloo

Judgy Bitch came to my attention for her frankly lunatic take on a rape trial in the USA where she proceeded to blame the victim of rape as someone trying to gain social approval by “shagging high value males”. Not the reality where the girl was raped precisely because she TURNED DOWN the advances of football players (American). The entire Steubenville rape read like the very epitome of “bullshit” without having to listen to people like “Judgy Bitch”.

So what’s got her knickers in a twist? Well? The backlash against the sudden “outing” of paedophiles in broadcasting. 

Barbara Hewson, a barrister in the UK, has caused a massive shit storm with her call for the age of consent to be lowered to 13 in the wake of what she calls a prurient witch hunt against men who traded favors with underage groupies decades ago.


You what? Barbara Hewson is defending paedophiles and this is an excellent way to defend them.

Dear Judgy Bitch.

I looked up to some of the “paedophiles”. I grew up with “Jim Will Fix It”. Jimmy Saville to “us” was “cool”. He wasn’t this scarecrowesque paedophile, he was a “weird grandfather”. We came from a much more innocent time.

No. Not Innocent. Not Naive. A much more “Hushed Up” time. We didn’t admit to being touched up by the paedophiles in our lives. The paedophiles got away with it for a long long time before it became acceptable to admit that you had been molested and harmed by their actions. People lived in silence.

Now I don’t think you quite understand how the law works. But the age of consent in the UK has been 16 since before I was born. In fact a quick Google makes it out to be the case from 1967. Most of these people were breaking the law at the time of their offences but “got away with it”.

So much to unpack! Let’s start with the age of consent.

So much to break. Let’s start with your arguments.

Based on the information contained in this world wide ages of consent chart (which I will assume is true), countries that police the sexuality of their young citizens (and not all of them do), have consent laws that range from 12 to 18 years. Interestingly enough, some countries have different ages for girls and boys. In Columbia, girls can have sex legally when they are 12, but boys have to wait until they’re 14. In Indonesia, girls can legally consent at 16, while boys must hold off until they are 19. In Swaziland and Lesotho, it’s the opposite. Boys can legally have sex at 14, but girls must wait until they are 16.

The problem here is you are not listing titans of progressiveness but places where women’s rights generally have taken a backseat to other issues there. The age of consent is an arbitrary value we have placed on the understanding of sexuality where a “child” stops being regarded as one for the purpose of sex.

Put it this way. I was born on August the 3rd 1985. On August the 2nd 2001 I was “underage”. On the 3rd I was “overage”. That’s “bonkers” but unfortunately it’s just a way of deciding when someone should recieve responsibility for their actions. We use the same idea when declaring which people can drive, drink or serve in the army. History is filled with children who drive, drink and indeed fight wars. That doesn’t mean that what they are doing is universally sensible and acceptable. Underage kids may drink, smoke and fuck but it doesn’t mean you should fucking do it with them.


In the US, many states have age-gap provisions, and they allow a mistake of age defense. That makes sense to me.


Are you suggesting that these men repeatedly made mistakes with regards to the “age” of the groupies they molested?

Okay… Let’s listen to her argument. It’s only fair to listen to it before I break down the argument.

This girl is 13 years old. Her name is Madison Gabriel, and she is professional model, and if you ran into her with her fake ID in a nightclub, there is no reasonable way you could know she is 13 years old!!!madison 2madison 1

Pretty girl. Except she is 18 now. I don’t know which photos of her are “Aged 12″. But here is the thing?

I agree here. You are basing your arguments on “faith” that the person you meet in a bar is telling the truth on what they are. Which is why people believe that I am Avicenna Hammerthrust, Secret Agent Surgeon and Astronaut…

If the girl looks underaged and lies about her age you have done “nothing wrong” especially if she is in an area where she has provided a fake ID! I mean? Come on! That’s common sense! People to this day are still fooled by Nigerian Princes who want to store their money in your bank account for “just a few days” to keep it safe! Of course you would think the lady above was not 13!

But let’s keep this argument in mind.


This girl is 10 years old. Her name is Thylane Loubry Blondeau.

thylane 10

And here she is at 12 years of age.



This is Elle Fanning. 13 years old.

elle 2


Courtney Stodden is 16 years old. Her husband is 51.



This is Jennifer Pinches. She looks 12 years old. She is 18.



Okay… We shall accept Judgy Bitch’s argument. People don’t appear the age that they are for a variety of reasons. I am regularly told that I look a lot older than I am so I can “get” this argument. But again dear reader… let it slide. I will come back to it in a moment.

The point being that it can be incredibly difficult to know, just by looking at someone, how old they are. Girls in particular. Clothing, hair, make-up, attitude …. they can all suggest a girl is much, much older than she is. The laws in the US are designed to reflect the reality that it IS possible to mistake a girl’s age and it probably doesn’t help much if she lies about it.

Gosh, that probably NEVER happens.

Because when kids are molested calling them “liars” really helps bring paedophiles to justice. Hey… does anyone remember the response to the people who accused the Catholic church of sexual abuse? Remind me again? Did they call them liars? Did they not subject victims to years of torment while trying to seek justice while protecting the priests who hurt them? Thus ironically actually damaging their own reputation so much that the association between the Church and Paedophilia is so strong that many people forget that the chance of a paedophile priest is the same as the paedophile teacher (it’s just that the Church and the greater Catholic Community protected such priests resulting in horrific tales of abuse while we would simply have jailed that teacher).

Slut Shaming underaged kids seems to be Judgy’s “forte”.

Let’s deal with emotional maturity. The underage girls above are all posed in very sexually suggestive ways. Does that mean they are ready to have sex? Just because they LOOK ready? Obviously not, but that doesn’t automatically mean they AREN’T either. A lot of it will depend on the emotional maturity of their partners. A 13 year old having sex with her 15 year old boyfriend is one thing. A 13 year old having sex with a 60 year old is quite another, no matter how hot that 60 year old guy happens to be.

At what age does it become acceptable to fuck a 13 year old? Pray tell.

The reason we don’t consider 13 year olds adults is because we have all had contact with 13 year old kids and realise that most are barely responsible enough to take care of a dog. They are not adults. They are goddamn idiots. Now you may say “but Avi! I was a smart 13 year old!” or “My 13 year old is smart” but take it from me? Compared to how smart they will be aged 18 or 24 or 28? They are bloody idiots. And the law is there to prevent the idiotic mini adults from making bad decisions due to the actions of adults who “don’t fucking care”.

There are three important variables that effect the average age of first sexual intercourse. http://www.andosciasociology.net/resources/Sex.SamplePgs.pdf

Black girls are sexually active a full year before the average.

And girls who live at age 14 with both their parents delay having sex beyond the average and well beyond girls who do NOT have both parents present.

Not much of a surprise there.

Hey! Did anyone notice the dig at single parents? I did!

Do I win a prize? Like where’s Waldo? I am assuming there is no dig against “black girls” because that would make this a racist thing and I am saving my “Race Card” for when I need it the most.


Here’s the third, very troubling variable: 25% of kids from low income families are having sex and the average age of initiation is 12.

Maybe. I loathe to read anything she rights so let’s assume she is correct. How would you change that? Well? You would by stopping the sexualisation of children and better SEX EDUCATION. School education in poorer regions in the USA is “pretty fucking terrible” and kids don’t learn this stuff and instead live in a culture of rampant sexualisation.


So there ARE girls out there having sex at age 12, and they likely come from poor families, which not coincidentally, tend to be fairly troubled.

Actually? The reason why poor families are troubled boils down to Maxwell’s heirarchy of needs. The lack of money places stresses and strains on all members which are adjusted for regularly until someone snaps. Being poor is stressful. It’s why most people on “poverty lines” have “issues”. Whether it be many of my patients and their struggle against alcoholism or the violence within poorer families. The issue seems to be deeper and due to the stress of poverty which I will say is incredibly stressful. The “poor but happy” model is the model of “noble savagery” updated for a modern audience.


The situation is not much different in the UK. The average age for first sex is 16 for both men and women.

Nearly a third (30 per cent) of men and a quarter (26 per cent) of women aged 16–19 had sex before the age of 16.


And it’s the girls from socially troubled, low-income families who are most likely to report early sexual experience.

Yes. Because kids who come from rich families tend to get better education EVEN in the UK because of the social infrastructure to education from their families. I had friends who were poor. My parents would want me to study then go out and play. Theirs wouldn’t care. A detention notice for me came with groundings and even beatings. My poorer friends had it easier…

But it meant I went to University and got qualified. It meant I got educated. And part of that education was PSE where I didn’t spend it giggling at condoms. I paid attention. It may sound like “sour grapes” but frankly? I explain this in a simple way.

Indians in the UK and the USA are upper middle class mainly or middle class. Most are well off enough to satisfy the immediate demand for wealth. They have low crime rates, high employment and high education. Indians in Malaysia though often aren’t that “high up” on the social ladder. Same for Indians in India. There are poorer Indians who have high crime, low employment and poor education. It’s not “genetic” and entirely down to nurture and you nurture education more if you have a value for it. If your existence is down to education then surely you would value it more than someone else who has survived without an education.


Let’s consider all of this information in the context of “Operation Yewtree”, which is the name police have given to their efforts to round up a group of men who were extremely popular entertainers and musicians in Britain some time ago. All quotes are from the Daily Mail article.

Ah yes back to the topic.

Operation Yewtree is the operation to round up British Celebrities who were allegedly part of a massive sex abuse culture during the 1960s,70s,80s and even 90s.


Yep read it away!

Lawyer Barbara Hewson described the arrests of celebrities such as Rolf Harris, Dave Lee Travis, Jim Davidson and PR guru Max Clifford under Operation Yewtree as a ‘grotesque spectacle’ adding it had ‘nothing to do with justice or the public interest’.

Except for the public who were molested… they seem kind of obsessed with obtaining justice.

She adds: ‘But the low-level misdemeanours with which Stuart Hall was charged are nothing like serious crime.’

Stuart Hall pleaded guilty to 14 charges of indecent assault involving 13 girls aged between 9 and 17. Two of the offences related to indecent penetration, and all but four of the offences took place between 1972 and 1982, during the time Hall was at the height of his fame with It’s a Knockout. He was a well known public figure as a children’s entertainer. Hall was released on bail pending sentencing on 17 June. Reporting restrictions prevented the media from making the news public until 2 May 2013, when the Crown Prosecution Service elected not to pursue the rape charge or three other indecent assault charges relating to the same complainant, who had decided not to give evidence.

I am afraid the only reason it’s a “Low Level Misdemeanour” is because Indecent Penetration is a separate law in the UK than rape (Rape is with a body part).

Ms Hewson continues: ‘Ordinarily, Hall’s misdemeanours would not be prosecuted, and certainly not decades after the event.

‘What we have here is the manipulation of the British criminal-justice system to produce scapegoats on demand. It is a grotesque spectacle.’

Well, what ARE the charges these men are being arrested for?

Stuart Hall molested a 9 year old girl sexually. His “misdemeanour” would have him prosecuted as a goddamn paedophile. This was a man who was given an OBE. Officer of the British Empire. It’s a big fucking deal. And the reason people came forward was that they believed his actions tarnished the meaning behind such an award.

I took a look at just one “victim”, and I have to say, I am very inclined to agree with Hewson. The link below will take you to the story of Karin Ward, who accuses both Freddy Starr and Jimmy Savile of assaulting her when she was 15.

Karin admits her life has been a train wreck.

A qualified legal secretary, she has rarely worked on account of her chronic depression and anxiety.

Last year, she was diagnosed with bowel cancer. She has been married and divorced three times and has seven children by five different fathers, the youngest of which — a 15-year-old son — lives with her. Three of her children were taken into care as babies, and a fourth at ten years old.

She spent a year in prison when pregnant with her fourth child in 1982 for deception, having written cheques knowing she had no funds to honour them. All the result, she believes, of the abusive childhood she suffered.

 I classify child abuse and sexual assault as similar issues because the effect of such varies from individual to individual.

There are individuals like myself who were beaten as children who grew up to be normal. I am nothing spectacular and all I learnt from “the beatings” is “never to hit my own kids”. There are people who suffered less pain growing up than I did but who broke down.

And I remind people that I don’t expect others to do what I do. I cannot expect any of you to sleep 5 hours a day and work 12 in temperatures above 35 Degrees C and humidity above the 80s with fluctuating power.

So likewise there are some individuals who were abused and who shed the weight of the abuse and went on to live long, healthy and normal lives. Then there are some people who were abused and whose abuse consumed them. We cannot say “tough it up you fragile babies” because then we are entering the world of “How Tough Are You” and that’s not how the world works.

You bunch of fairies…

Yikes! She must have suffered some pretty serious abuse at the hands of Freddy and Jimmy to result in such a severely fucked up life. What on earth happened that led to all this?

Karin claimed that when she recoiled from Starr’s alleged attempt to grab her breast and buttocks, he humiliated her by shouting out in front of the guests that he wasn’t interested in touching her because she was flat-chested.

It’s a clear case of sexual abuse and from a figure of trusted authority.

I’m sorry. WHAT?!?

He tried to grab her ass and then called her a “titless wonder”? That’s the “abuse”? Are you fucking kidding me?

Oh wait. There’s more.

Wait wait wait! Remember the start of the argument?

That some girls don’t look their age. Jimmy Saville’s show was specifically aimed at kids. And he knew how old they were. Because they would say how old they were when they wanted to appear on his show. For the same reason that nearly every show would get kids to say how old they are.

On one occasion, Karin claims, Savile persuaded her to perform a sex act on him in his Rolls-Royce on the promise of seeing one of his shows.

So there was more than one occasion then?

‘We’d think: “Jimmy’s here, we might get to go out.” If he came in his Rolls-Royce, he could get several girls in there and he would take us to the park, to a restaurant or London.’ There was, as the girls found out, a price to be paid for such generosity.

‘He wasn’t interested in us as people, he was only interested in one thing. We’d say: “He’s a dirty old man, a pervert,” but we’d laugh about it. We didn’t care because we were going to get sweets and fags and be taken to London to be on his show.’

‘We’d sit at the tables, smoking, thinking: “Poor cow, I wonder what she has to do,” and then we’d go: “Never mind, another trip to London.” ’

Bear in mind these are kids. Jimmy here is taking advantage of them. Judgy Bitch’s particular “He didn’t know their age” argument is fucking scuppered.

Notice how he FUCKING READS THEIR AGE OUT? Jimmy Fucking Saville knew how old they were and still fucked them because he is a goddamn paedophile. And here is the thing.

Hey. Do you know what you call the act of taking a child and treating them to stuff so that they are in debt to the giver mentally and so are easier to abuse?

It’s called Grooming. And Saville and Starr were doing that to kids. Kids who trusted them while kids across the UK wanted to meet them.


So basically, the girls were groupies. They wanted all the benefits of hanging out with a big star and they understood it came with a price and they paid it, perhaps reluctantly, but with full knowledge that the trips to London and the fags and the sweet weren’t free.

I give out sweets to kids. You see, I am allergic to soya lecithin. An emulsifier in Chocolate. It won’t kill me but it does give me terrible diarrhoea. I know. TMI. But people do give me bars of chocolate as a thank you sometimes. I give these away.

I do give kids chocolates and sweets. But there is no price. Many of these kids would never get to eat a bar of chocolate that may cost as much as a day’s salary for their parents. That is my reason. To see them smile. The price of a chocolate bar is nothing compared to seeing a child taste real good chocolate for the first time.

So often these kids follow me around and bring me stuff and want to hang out with the “non-scary doctor” who tells their parents to not scare them with injections (If you don’t eat the doctor will give you an injection). But to take advantage of such trust is not the actions of a role model for children. He took advantage of the trust he received to groom young girls for sex. By providing them an outlet for what they thought was glamour. He made them believe that fucking him was part of the lifestyle.

By making this argument Judgy Bitch is excusing “grooming” as a practice. Paedophile apologists are rather rare I would have thought.

Why should they be?

They came from horrifically messed up families and had tons of problems long before they ever laid eyes on Jimmy or Garry or any of the other accused men. What they wanted was an escape. A way out. A free pass. They clearly had zero adult supervision. Who lets their young daughter go to London with a much older, famous entertainer? Who lets their teenager cruise around with a man reeking of cigar smoke and alcohol in a Rolls-Royce?

Jimmy Saville was considered a national treasure. You say “What Sort of Family Lets their Kids Go With A Famous Person On A Trip”, I say “What Sort of Person Lets Their Child Sit on the Lap of A Stranger in A Fake Beard” (HO HO HO!).

Jimmy may have preyed on children from poor families for two reasons.

1. Easy to wow poorer people with the trappings of glamour.

2. Poorer people are less likely to be believed at the time.

Basically? He went after the absolute weakest and most vulnerable members of society by offering them the things they craved most in their lives. Glamour and Celebrity.

And for fuck’s sake! The man was literally grooming children with “Candy”! How much more stereotypical can you get?

And now they are claiming the MEN abused THEM? Looks to me like it was the other way around. The situations and incidents Karin describes as abuse were nothing more than girls out famewhoring. Desperate for male approval and love and attention and power by proxy, they tried shooting for the moon.

Oh this argument again?

Want to know something horrible? Of course you do! We wouldn’t be here if we were going to hold back punches.

Remember how we said that Judgy Bitch’s “People don’t look the age they are” Argument and how I said it was bullshit because Saville knew the ages of the girls on his show?

Well Saville also molested children in hospitals. You know… Places where their age was known. So… what? Are sick (and often chronically sick) children deciding to “Shoot for the Moon”?

And here is the most important thing. THE MOST ABSOLUTE FUCKING IMPORTANT THING. If a 14 year old girl came up to you and said “I fancy you, you big rock star! I want you to fuck me!”, the correct answer is “No”. It’s not “Yes, because I gave you a ride” or “Yes, because I gave you candy”. No No No! All those are actions of a terrible human being and fucking paedophile.

Judgy Bitch calls herself a MRA. If she’s an MRA then I want her out of the movement. She’s a detriment to fucking men everywhere because her argument paints us all as goddamn paedophiles.

Men. That is my gender. The XY chromosome bearing portion of the world. We have agency. We have more agency in sex than women. So chances are even if this “sexually active minor” were to present herself as willing we would be entirely capable of saying “No”.

To claim that we would not is to claim that men have sex on reflex. That we literally have no agency because our entire existence is not but reflex. That men cannot think or control their behaviour. And that’s far more damaging to the image of men than ANY feminist.


It’s a story as old as bloody time. Young women with nothing to offer but their youth and sexuality chase after powerful men in exchange for favors. If we are going to arrest every powerful man who has ever availed himself of willing women, we are gonna need to build a whole lot of jails.

And a story older than bloody time is how a lot of men are able to keep it in their goddamn pants. Seriously? Am I the only man insulted by the notion that the mere possibility of sex turns us into slavering monsters?

Hewson says the men being arrested are scapegoats. Scapegoats for what? For the anger and embarrassment and jealousy and bitterness the women feel because they FAILED to land the big fish? Would any of these women be complaining if they had ended up married to one of the stars?

Maybe not. Maybe they wouldn’t see what these men did as abusive, coercive and plain fucking wrong but there are women who happily throw stones at rape victims or set brides on fire. However they are still people abused by the system where they genuinely believe that throwing the stone or setting the bride on fire is the “best” thing to do.

If you “groom” your children to fit certain roles they will fit them. I was “groomed” to be “upper middle class”. I always was going to go to University and the idea of any other job never even crossed my mind. Now imagine why a young girl would “be a groupie”. Society has groomed her to expect that life so she seeks happiness through it because the romantic ideal is that specific “girl” will somehow break through to this rock star’s heart and be the “one”.

But it never is…


Hell no. They’d all be divorced now with half his assets in their bank accounts, gloating over what idiots men are to fall for youth and beauty.

It’s surprising how few women in my life have ever been interested in how much money I could earn and how much I will earn in the future.

Hewson wants to lower the age of consent so that prosecuting these men becomes impossible. While I understand her ire, I’m afraid I can’t agree with her solution entirely. Lower the age of consent to 13? Okay. Sure.

No… The lowered age of consent will just let paedophiles not be a problem anymore in the same way that legalising drink driving will make drunken drivers not a problem anymore.

But put in sensible measures like the United States. An age gap consideration and a mistaken age defense. With power, comes responsibility. That’s part of the deal. Powerful men have some obligation to use their power judiciously. Underage girls are off limits, no matter how willing they are to comply.

These are considerations in the UK… The Fact of the matter is the chronic abuse of people like Stuart Hall and Saville and Starr is so widespread that it cannot be because of “mistaken age”. Especially considering (And this bears repeating) Saville raped children in hospitals and children who appeared on his show whose ages he knew because he would FUCKING INTRODUCE THEM. It’s chilling to hear how nurses wouldn’t leave him alone in wards with patients and how powerless they were to stop him at the time.

Judiciously? Judgy here has used her platform to protect horrible paedophiles who have abused scores of children.

With power, comes responsibility. It applies to the girls, too. Youth and beauty and enthusiasm have power, and the girls have some responsibility to use their power judiciously. Chasing after much older men in the hopes of currying favor and gaining benefits is off limits.

To put it into perspective?

Being molested by Jimmy Saville would be like being molested by Mr. Rodgers. It’s that level of an abuse of public trust.

But humans are humans. Powerful men always have and always will delight in young women hunting them. Young women always have and always will hunt for powerful men. Both sides are equally culpable. Both sides are engaging in abuse. Both sides are behaving shamefully. Both side are being idiots.

No my dear. Only one side is engaging in abuse. And this notion of powerful men?

It hurts men who do good things out there. Men who don’t abuse the notion of “power”. While both sides are “idiots” the effect of “women chasing after money” is less virulent than “Paedophilia”.

gold digger

But only one side is being held criminally responsible? Bullshit. If the girls are not going to be strung up on charges of solicitation and prostitution, and I absolutely do NOT think they should be, then fairness and equality under the law dictates the men get a pass, too.

You are going to prosecute minors on prostitution charges?

Sleeping with an underage prostitute is still paedophilia and still prosecuted as such. The law would throw the book at these famous paedophiles just as hard.

We can argue this in two ways. The first way I have repeated to death.

The second? Well? Minors cannot be prosecuted for certain actions and child prostitution is ONE of them.

So no even if we did try and prosecute these abuse victims for the “mystical crime of Gold Digging” (AKA being a Whore) they would still walk free and we would still jail paedophiles.


Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.

And sometimes you should stop talking because you actually harm the MRA movement. Hell if anything the various Misters from the MRA movement should be distancing themselves from Judgy Bitch right about now…


  1. CaitieCat says

    Thanks for calling this out, Avi. As someone who was abused at 10 by a bus driver who preyed on my lack of in-my-life dadness, it means a lot when people speak up about it. I remember my high school’s concert bandmaster, who would take a new “girlfriend” every year from among the Grade 9s, and we all knew about it, and none of us ever said anything to anyone. We just sort of shrugged and figured it wasn’t our business. One of them was a friend of mine. I asked her. She said she’d be horrified if anything bad came out of it, it would be horrific for her at home with her abusively evangelical parents.

    I hadn’t connected the “Jimmy Savile” thing with Jim’ll Fix It. Now I’m horrified, I used to love that show. Growing up in toronto after we emigrated, I was babysat by someone who lived next door to a local children’s show presenter, and again it was fairly well-known that he was someone you wanted to be careful about being alone with.

    I’m glad the world is changing about that, some. People writing about it are how it changes. So thanks.

    Also, I think perhaps you meant “Maslow” instead of Maxwell, in the hierarchy of needs bit? Easy one to miss, seen that lots of times. Great fisking, though.

  2. throwaway, extra beefy super queasy says

    Quite a thorough fisking and seriously needed. Thank you! At what point did you want to just walk away from doing it? I’d have had my tolerance tested within the first 3 sentences I think. Which is why I don’t do fisking I suppose, but I’m glad there is someone out there who is willing to do it. It is definitely needed when the views are as odious and colonoscopically discoverable as this “Judgy Bitch” character’s are.

  3. says

    In the US, anyway, statutory rape requires no mens rea. I don’t know about the UK. Not knowing the victim was underage, even if they actively deceived you, is not a defense. However, this has nothing to do with this case because it’s not like anyone is knowing that no one involved knew these were kids.

  4. JudgyBitch says

    Very interesting and thought provoking response. Thank you.

    I would like to clarify a few things, if I may.

    First of all, I used the pictures of the underage girls who look wildly different from their actual ages to illustrate the rationale behind the mistaken age defense that has been enacted by some states in the US.

    I don’t believe I ever claimed that any of the British celebrities were confused by the ages of the young women, not because I don’t think that’s possible, but rather because I simply haven’t studied the cases in any kind of detail.

    You state that when a 14 year old expresses a desire for consensual sex with a powerful man, the answer to that is always no.

    Why is it no?

    Because it’s illegal? Well, lowering the age of consent laws with the two provisions for age gap and mistaken age would address that.

    Because it’s immoral? How so? Do you not believe 14 year olds are capable of agency? Or desire?

    Because it’s exploitive? Unnatural? Why is the answer always no?

    I was struck particularly by your observation that my arguments could be used to reframe men as natural pedophiles, the definition of which depends on the age of consent, no? Or do you have another definition you are using? That is very troubling, indeed.

    I am focusing more on the assertion that young woman DO have agency, particularly over their own desires, and that they CAN be held accountable for their actions. Obviously, there is tremendous variation in levels of maturity between individuals, but can you not agree that some very young women are rather mature and perfectly capable of handling sexual desire?

    I’ll point you to Nikki McWatters for an example of that. And she is just one.

    I did not grow up in Great Britain, so I am not particularly familiar with the men involved in the scandal, and I have no wish to defend men who sexually exploited children. My question is whether a 15 year old trading favors with a much older celebrity is really a child. Where I live, 15 year olds can drive motor vehicles with another licensed driver in the car. That’s a pretty big responsibility. If they are capable of that, why are they not capable of choosing what sexual activities they will participate in, and under what circumstances?

  5. says


    Are you saying that if this young man – https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoVqRJVaT3JeUZVGDHi-_JKcVuap9eLIsm2GYGDd4mMhcPXIGp came up to you and said ‘I’m looking for a mommy, would you please fuck me?’, you’d immediately get naked? Even though in this picture, he’s 15?

    You wouldn’t have any moral qualms at all about taking advantage of teenage naivety? In spite of the massive power differential between yourself, a theoretically adult woman and a teenage boy? Even though the power differential means that he cannot actually give informed consent because A) he’s a kid, he doesn’t know jack shit, and B) he can’t actually tell you no because all the actual power is in your court?

    I’m asking the wrong person. Of course you’d fuck him. The fact that you’d hold all the power in the relationship is a plus for you, just like it was for Jimmy. Adult relationships are just so hard, right? So you’d rather go fuck a kid who just happens to look like an adult but lacks the agency.

  6. David Marjanović says

    Because it’s exploitive?

    Yes. There’s a massive power differential involved. It extends to things that neither party is probably so much as aware of.

    I actually feel similarly uncomfortable when teachers and students get too close, even if both are overage and if one isn’t twice as old as the other.

    Obviously, there is tremendous variation in levels of maturity between individuals, but can you not agree that some very young women are rather mature and perfectly capable of handling sexual desire?

    “Some”, you say. And therefore we should start from assuming that all of them are?

  7. Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts says

    An epic and thorough take-down; you’re incredibly thorough and spot on.

  8. loreo says

    “I am focusing more on the assertion that young woman DO have agency, particularly over their own desires, and that they CAN be held accountable for their actions.”

    You need to get this idea out of your head that men just can’t help sticking things inside the bodies of female humans they find “sexy”. If a “hot” teenager walks up to a man and demands sex, the grown-ass adult needs to take the responsibility of saying no. That’s it. Doesn’t matter how “desirable” she is, how much she “wants it”, not a single shred of her desire or motives overwrites the responsibility of an adult to make DAMN SURE that she is safe, physically and emotionally. If that means the teenager doesn’t get laid until she hits the legally-mandated age of consent, so be it. Sex with another person is a privilege, not a right.

  9. Jonathan, der Ewige Noobe says

    You know, I’d be all for revamping our age of consent laws. I find it creepy that Americans consider making a career out of murder a more palatable option for a sixteen-year-old than starting a family with someone two years older than them. I’ve met nineteen-year-olds who have no business having sex with anyone, ever, and I’ve met fifteen-year-olds who were more sensible and mature than I was at the time. I think we need a certification exam or something.
    But when I get hit on–and this happens enough to be really creepy sometimes–by somebody obviously, blatantly younger than me? Somebody clearly more cut out for an awkward, redeye-riddled homecoming dance photo than the hilarious bathroom mirror selfies that I cannot remove from my cache anywhere near fast enough for comfort?
    I say fucking no. Because I’m an adult. And believe it or not, grown men are capable of controlling themselves around fucking children. Of rejecting the advances of people who think Christian Grey is dreamy and having a Master is OMG kewl. Because it’s really not at all difficult to spot a little girl trying to act grownup–the mannerisms, the way they talk, how they act around others, it all adds up to a big, pulsing red light that should be enough to stop even vanilla sex, let alone the kind of kink my partners get mixed up in.
    Unless, you know, you’re a semi-professional child molester who actively looks for those traits. Unless, you know, your entire sexuality relies on self-deception and feigned ignorance to keep your conscience kinda-sorta clear. Unless, you know, you want a little girl trying to act grownup to hit on you so you can imagine it’s some kind of forbidden romance.
    Then I guess it might be harder for you.
    The line between a girl and a woman can be blurry sometimes. But you know when you might be crossing it, and you fucking stop. You give her a hug and tell her she’s sweet and gorgeous, but you can’t do this with them the way they are now, because it’d be like getting her drunk. You tell her to find somebody her age, point her to some online sex ed resources, and you leave.
    Unless, you know, you’re a god damn pedophile.
    Complicated, I know. But something tells me I’m not the only person in the world who can manage it.

  10. says

    There’s one thing I always come back to when I hear these kind of “how could they know?” Arguments, whether it’s about age of consent or consent in general or the various MRA myths about false rape accusations or sperm-stealers: When in doubt, don’t have sex.

    If you don’t know someone well enough to have a reasonable degree of certainty about their age? Don’t fuck them.
    If you don’t know someone well enough that you can’t tell if they’re sober enough to consent? Don’t fuck them.
    If you don’t know someone well enough to know if they’re likely to regret sleeping with you and falsely accuse you of rape after the fact? Don’t fuck them.
    If you don’t know someone well enough to know if they’re the sort of person who rubs their insides with used condoms to entrap hapless men into fatherhood and child support? Definitely don’t fuck them.

    As you note, so many of MRAs’ biggest issues would go away if they didn’t assume that men have no self-control,and just plug their dicks into anyone without thought or volition.

  11. Sercee says

    @Judgy Bitch, if you don’t want to defend child molestors and sexual predators, then why did you try so hard to do so? And why is it that in seemingly everything you write it’s that the girl’s a little power hungry whore, and there’s no way the guy can be held responsible for taking advantage of her whoreness? In fact, why are all girls whores to you? Why do you want to punish them so bad? What the fuck is your own damage that you hate them so much?

  12. David Marjanović says

    If that means the teenager doesn’t get laid until she hits the legally-mandated age of consent, so be it. Sex with another person is a privilege, not a right.


    When in doubt, don’t have sex.

    That’s so obvious I didn’t think it needed to be said. As usual, I was wrong.

  13. Klang says

    Do you not believe 14 year olds are capable of agency? Or desire?

    Some 14 year olds want to do a lot of things. Drink alcohol, for example. Do you think drinking should be legal at 14, based on 14 year olds having agency and wants?

    Or are there some things that you should be older to be able to do as you are then more likely to make sensible, responsible decisions?

  14. pitchguest says


    Not to implicitly agree or disagree with anyone, but in my country of origin (Sweden, which is thought to be very civilised and more to the point “the most women friendly country in the world”) the age of consent is 15. In the UK, it’s sixteen. Now, if two 15-year olds from Sweden were to travel to the UK and have sex, would they get arrested because they’re too young to have sex or because it’s illegal? Just a thought.

    And yes, bizarrely, if 15-year old Taylor Lautner had travelled to Sweden to have sex with another 15-year old or with someone older (of either gender), then it would have been perfectly legal. But if he at 16 had travelled to the UK to have sex with a 15-year old (just a 15-year old, not younger), he would have been arrested and labelled a sex offender for the rest of his life. *shrugs*

  15. Alyssum says


    I took a look at the actual Sexual Offenses Act and the age of consent applies when a person over 18 is having sex with a person under 16. Two 15 year olds will not be arrested for having consensual sex. A 17 year old and a 15 year old will not be arrested for having consensual sex. I did not look in enough detail to see whether there are some age range limits like there are in places like Canada. Bringing up the theoretical arrest of two 15 year olds that had sex is really dismissive during a discussion about adult men who were waaaaaay past their teens taking advantage of and abusing children.

    @JudgyBitch You seem to be saying that since many of these girls are already disadvantaged and at risk for abuse the laws should be changed to make it even easier for them to be abused. We should be trying to protect these girls more not less.

  16. S Mukherjee says

    This JB person is disgusting. Assuming she’s not the same person as the lawyer Hewson, there are TWO women busy bleating on about how terribly persecuted the old paedophiles are?? I really don’t get it, why do they do this to their fellow women (and by extension, to themselves)? Do they think that if they spend all their time supporting these vile men, then they’ll be invited into the privileged boys’ club? And someone commented that JB even has two young daughters? What the hell?
    And JB, you’ve been real busy pointing out how all those slutty, whorey little girls are just asking for it — what do you think about sexual abuse of young boys by adult men? I suppose you’ll be perfectly okay with that too? Or would that be abhorrent to you because it’s a same-sex thing?

  17. says

    So standing up for someone who tried to blame the victims of paedophilia…

    Classy mate. Real Classy…

    For your next trick, I suggest kicking a puppy. That way we can all know you are truly evil.

  18. says

    JB has more balls than all you faggot bitches added together.

    Do you have an actual argument, or are you just here to make a meaningless statement based on an imaginary quality (as “balls”, in this context, clearly doesn’t refer to physical testicles)?

  19. CaitieCat says

    NitricAcid @ 19:

    Please don’t tell me it’s Uncle Bobby.

    Okay, I won’t. Just don’t ask me who it was, k?

  20. whatv says

    She keeps proving what a shitty human being she is, quite nicely. I really wonder what experiences she’s had with most women (except the ones of her “tribe”, those are ok).

  21. Andy says

    oh no the bitch dweebs are demanding an argument …ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh I’m scared, they may attack me with their spot cream and poor personal hygeine.

  22. Emma K says

    Judgy Bitch is also getting her arguments confused. It’s entirely reasonable to argue that the age of consent should be changed, made flexible, or anything else: the massive variation around the world just proves that there is no one, clear, correct answer to the question of when teenagers should be considered capable of consenting to sex.

    But that argument does not lead to the conclusion that these men shouldn’t be prosecuted. Even if you believe that the age of consent should be 12, you know that it’s 16, as every person in the UK does. Even if you believe that it’s not immoral to have sex with a 14 yearold girl who’s absolutely starstruck, you sure as fuck know that it’s statutory rape, and that every commission increases your chances of going to prison for a long fucking time. So, if a man has sex with a girl (or boy) who is under the legal age of consent, and he goes to jail, that’s not unfair. He was forewarned. That’s social control. Get the fuck over it.

    It’s also worth pointing out that changing the age of consent would not erase these men’s crimes, since the new age of consent would be highly unlikely to have such far-reaching retroactive effect.

  23. Abnoy says

    Loreo, pathetic hypocritical beta manginas like you are the reason why I have absolutely no respect whatsoever for PostModern Western BDSM. It’s nothing more than just merely a half-baked watered-down no-sugar decaffeinated wimp-rock emo-punk version of Traditional Patriarchal Sexuality. Seriously, the stereotypical hustler pimps from the inner-city ghettos or frat-boy PUA players from the suburbs or redneck hillbillies in the Bible Belt have got so much more dignity than you. Poseurs like you (in contrast to, say, the Goreans) are to Male Dom (hah, as if) what Twilight is to Traditional Vampires. If you’re gonna be a badass, be a badass, not some halfass. Hardcore sick twisted kinky perverted deviant crap with “adult women” is fine dandy, but vanilla sex with an adolescent teenager below some arbitrary random age of legal consent is suddenly a capital offense crime against humanity? Wheee, the PostModern Western (really American) overidealization of “children” strikes again! They’re massacring, gangbanging/gangraping, and bullying each other to death ( and even other people both younger and older ) all the time even among the “one-percent”‘ers and you still think that they’re oh-so too most very fragile. How did humanity ever manage to last this long, I have no idea…not! Rotfl!

  24. MJ says

    Wow Abnoy you sound like you have some pretty heavy issues. That and you seem to have never heard of this word called ‘consent’, in civilized society we don’t usually consider children capable of giving it to adults for something as personal as sex. I was not fully ready to have sex at 16, especially looking back now I chose too soon. But at the time I was in love and my lover was the same age as me and just as new at it and we took it slow so in the end I didn’t suffer any permanent emotional damage from the consensual (key word there) sex we had. If he had been much older and had used his maturity to manipulate and pressure me when I was still too unsure to try my naive self would have been much more damaged. Thats what happens when you exert power over vulnerable people in order to posess their body for your own selfish sexual needs. Of course I don’t expect you to understand any of this, judging from your word salad you live in a completly different reality to the rest of the world. Thank you for posting your comment, it may be hateful and irrational but it does make the rest of us appreciate all the people we know who are nothing like you.

  25. Abnoy says

    Whatever happened to America, Home of The Free and Land of The Brave, eh? Whatever happened to Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll?

  26. says

    Wow read the link from “no more mr nice guy” above, well most of it as the article got boring. The first comment I see is a doozy, daughter threatened with gang-rape and her fans say..
    “And you’re so sure that your daughter is not to blame AT ALL because…?”

    Yup that’s the logical conclusion of her badly thought out ideas of agency in minors.

  27. says

    Can I simply just say what a comfort to uncover somebody that truly knows what they’re talking about on the internet. You certainly understand how to bring a problem to light and make it important. More people really need to look at this and understand this side of your story. I was surprised that you’re not more
    popular since you most certainly have the gift.

  28. says

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    աɑуs ttο cߋncеіѵe ɑ ƅbү (campusfileucc.com)


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