I got this in response to the post I did last night on the problem of The Indian Male vs the New Indian Male and how the education and treatment of men has to change in India.
I spent the day thinking about this. This is clearly a post from A Voice for Men that’s been cut and paste (I do check if my mail is just cut and pasted from somewhere else). And the problem here is that who ever is using this as a response has not understood the problem of privilege in an Indian context or even in a western context. Today’s piece comes from Typhonblue.
I’ll tell you first how you don’t stop rape.
Is it “by coddling men as special little fairies who get everything they want”?
Seeing a poster that says “My strength is not for hurting” or “don’t be that guy” won’t do anything that a law doesn’t.
Because posters do not work at all.
And yes. I picked that poster for a reason. Superman is a male power fantasy but also one that’s actually really remarkable. The confident superman of yesteryear is replaced by the nuanced superman who is a slave to his powers. While the Man who has Everything may be the very epitome of masculinity, he is also plagued by insecurities. He has to pretend to be Clark Kent to be accepted in society. He bleeds for other men, literally throwing himself at monsters to protect others because “he can take it”. He has to hold back because other people cannot take it. Superman is the very epitome of self control. Unlike his enemies, the man of steel is powered by humanity which makes him the Superman that we all love. It’s not his powers that makes us love him but the fact that he is responsible with them because he lives in a world of cardboard.
What does this have to do with rape? Nothing if you can’t get the allegory. Superman is a hero because he understands his privilege and uses it for good. And even though he is considered naive (his opponent is a man with no real super powers and who wears a suit and that’s considered a good match for him) he is nuanced enough to utilise the privilege granted by what he is to help others. He could backhand a villain so hard his head flies off. But he does not because he uses his privilege for good. And it requires concentration.
Be that man.
It’s “easy” to throw your arm around a woman who is drunk and take advantage of her. Some women almost expect it. The power is in the hands of men to say no and change the way things work. And posters that remind you of how that occurs help.
The VAST majority of rapists are men on women followed by men on men. Women as rapists are a minority. This is well known. By targetting a demographic where there are a lot of popular assumptions about rape and telling them that some of these assumptions are wrong you are not harming that demographic. You are informing them.
You see an anti-rape law is sorta like an anti-rape poster except with a punishment attached for not following what the poster says.
Except anti-rape posters don’t seek to punish rapes but prevent them. The difference may be hard for the MRA to understand but prevention of rape is better than punishment. Let’s take the Steubenville Rape Trial. Who here thinks that the BEST outcome of that situation was the punishment of the two boys? Who here thinks that if there was a way to reduce that sort of behaviour by changing the culture of young men and indeed the society that helped create this terrible crime.
Prevention is better than the punishment.
So how is saying “men, don’t rape” going to be more effective than saying “men, don’t rape” and then adding “if you do, you go to jail?”
By informing men that there are some behaviours that are widely considered to be fun that are not acceptable and that doing them is considered rape, you will inform men that many actions they consider sensible are really not.
This goes back to the changes in the way we perceive women and men not being taught to change their perceptions and how they act.
Saying “Men! Don’t sleep with that passed out woman even if she says she wants it, because the alcohol judges her senses and it is rape. She will feel terrible. Don’t be that guy” is trying to create social responsibility in men rather than simply throw them into jails.
Because this is what these feminist inspired posters essentially are. They are a law, against rape, but without the actual criminal punishment. If the law isn’t an effective deterrent, than how is a poster going to be an effective deterrent?
The problem with “We were drunk and had sex” is that it is difficult to prosecute it as rape. That’s the “problem”. Because drunk people CAN give consent and alcohol makes you make bad decisions. These aren’t the law. These are just suggestions. Suggestions that make life better for women and men.
Are you honestly saying that “Don’t be that guy” deeply insults your masculinity such that the only way to assuage this is to channel the spirit of Ghenghis Khan and rape your way twice as hard as you would normally? OR you know, think about your actions. On some small level, you would understand that alcohol makes you make bad decisions and realise that those can also extend to bad decisions on who you sleep with.
Men who rape are not raping because they’ve been told it’s cool or fun or awesome, or because they heard an off color joke, saw a naked ankle or watched porn… they rape because they have a powerful emotional compulsion to do so.
Except this makes men GENUINELY FUCKING DANGEROUS. That there is some switch inside me that turns me into a rapist. That men who rape are not in control of their actions. Your actual argument is “that they cannot help it”.
Let’s get something clear. Human beings—barring the congenitally emotionally disabled such as sociopaths—don’t want to rape. They don’t like rape. Rape is the exact opposite of what a human being wants when they engage in sex. Men, who happen to be human beings just like women, want to feel desirable.
Except many men don’t see what they do as rape. They aren’t holding knives to throats or guns to heads as much as causally demonstrating the raw difference in average power. You are most likely to be raped by a friend or a partner than by some random stranger.
Most men are devastated after being rejected by a woman. What makes anyone think that the average man is going to enjoy enduring the most profound rejection one human being can muster for another—which is exactly what the rapist endures in order to rape.
Because we sell men the notion that women should simply drop whatever they are doing and be pleased that we are talking to them. Rejection WILL occur. Not every woman is attracted to you. Big Fucking Deal.
That’s like suggesting that you wish for a life where everything goes your way.
Again, the majority of rapists are men in relationships with the victim.
If you saw someone eating broken glass, would you assume the glass is tasty or conclude there’s something seriously wrong with the person chowing down?
Except this isn’t broken glass. It’s a very simplistic attitude to “rape” and assuming there is only one sort.
What the current crop of male targeted anti-rape posters will do is normalize rape. It won’t normalize rape for men who aren’t compelled to rape in the first place. Nope. It’ll just shame them. But it will normalize rape for men who are rapists.
How are you being ashamed by a poster that is telling men to be mindful of things that can be considered rape.
It isn’t normalising rape, it is pointing out that the majority of rapists are “men” who don’t realise that their actions constitute rape and that spreading awareness of the inherent power men currently have over women and how it is utilised doesn’t harm anyone.
Instead of seeing themselves as damaged individuals who are engaging not just in harm to others, but harm to themselves, rapists—male ones at least—will see themselves as the guys who do what every other guy really wants to do, but doesn’t have the balls.
A lot of rape is about power and getting what you want on demand. It’s frankly astonishing to hear that a poster informing men that they should not sleep with drunk women as drunk women may not be able to provide proper consent. Just think about your actions…
And this somehow normalises rape?
The “Rapist” stereotype is actually a rarity. You are more likely to be raped by someone you know and indeed “love” than someone who is a rapist.
They aren’t hurting, they’re edgy.
Rapists are in the business of rationalizing their compulsion to repeat, rationalizing their sense of powerlessness, and current anti-rape posters help them do just that. Rape is normal male behaviour, dontcha know? Something men teach each other to do when feminists aren’t there to stop them.
No. It’s not “normal male behaviour”. It’s a behaviour of privilege and of men being told that they can get what they want when they want.
The fact the author stated that getting shot down by a woman is so devastating is indicative that the author doesn’t understand that the only reason it’s devastating is that the author’s idea of a man is so used to getting his own way that this is the first time he has to deal with rejection.
Rapists are not compelled to rape. If they are then they are a serious psychiatric threat to society. They aren’t powerless, rape is about the exertion of power and it’s rationalised most often as “She’s my girlfriend or wife/she wanted it”.
The only way you can believe in this is if you don’t think that the majority of rape is “rape”.
But if jokes, naked ankles and porn don’t cause men to rape women, what does?
That’s right. In fact, having been sexually abused by a woman is a stronger risk factor for becoming a future sexual abuser in boys than having been sexually abused by a man.
And this only holds true if we talk about serial rapists and serial killers for whom sexual abuse is a MASSIVE indicator of possible reasons for having such an issue. However as I said the only way this may hold true is if you simply ignore date, spousal or drunken rape.
This is where the emotional compulsion to abuse comes from. This is the motivation. This is the manufacture process for adult male rapists.
Yet despite being sexually violated, only a fraction of these boys go on to abuse! That’s how resistant to raping the average male human is; even the most effective method of training a boy to become a rapist—by raping him–is only effective for one out of every ten boys.
Yet roughly 1 in 5 women claims to have been raped. Are you suggesting that all these women are raped by a “fraction” of these boys? They must be awfully busy.
And let’s take the Steubenville Rapists. Funny how neither of them turned out to have been abused as children yet managed to rape someone.
I am sorry, again the problem here is that the MRAs are willing to alleviate blame from men and portray rapists as individuals acting on instinct.
The idea that a bad joke, a naked ankle or porn will cause men to rape is demonizing. The idea that there exists a “rape culture” teaching men to rape in any way but by raping them and then ignoring their subsequent emotional disorder is depraved.
In response to the Delhi Rapes, there where various people in India who blamed the victim for being out “late” and having a “boyfriend”. There were people who blamed the boy who was attacked for not fighting off 6 men simultaneously let alone 6 men who were armed. Various politicians ignored the rape and made it out to be a political move to derail conversation rather than people genuinely wondering why society has fucked up that much. People blamed Jeans. People blamed Mobile Phones. They even blamed KFC.
Not one person was willing to stand up and point out that the misogynistic culture of India creates entitled men who think any demands made must be acquiesced to and so don’t see rape as rape but as “getting what they asked for”.
When the two young boys raped a young girl at Steubenville they were protected by a large proportion of the town. If that’s not a culture that protects rapists then I am a pidgeon.
And here’s the thing. Right now, in the US, there is an epidemic of institutionalized sexual abuse that is being ignored in favor of manufactured statistics about sex trafficking of girls and other juicy sexualized and sensationalized threat narratives designed to push our buttons.
In fact this epidemic of sexual abuse makes the Catholic Church scandal pale in comparison.
Since the 1950s approximately 12,000 men have come forward to admit abuse in the Catholic Church sex scandal.
10,000 boys a year are being sexually abused by female staff in juvenile detention facilities in the US. A YEAR.
Okay and this is apparently the source of all rape? Which doesn’t explain why so many rapists have NEVER EVER BEEN TO PRISON.
And human traffic in the USA alone has resulted in more than 1 MILLION people in the country. What? You don’t think human traffic is for work? The majority of traffickers traffic workers rather than “girls for prostitution”.
Okay, 10,000 boys a year in the USA are sexually abused.
Then why not advocate for them? Why not fight for their rights? Why not do something for them? Instead of poisoning the well. I mean the literal argument here is that “Boys are being sexually abused in prisons often by women. Ergo? We should let other women get raped outside!”.
This is stupid. Not ONE FUCKING MRA to my knowledge has gone “Women get raped but I know that young men get raped and there are so many advocates for women there are none for men, so I am supporting them”.
So here’s the equation. Boys learn to be rapists by having been raped(even if only a fraction of them go on to enact their abuse), and we’re turning a blind eye to women raping boys in juvenile facilities—better termed “boy rape camps”—and then we’re ignoring, denying and minimizing female-on-male sexual abuse in order to prop up a morally bankrupt feminist empire built on the backs of rape victims—both victims of actual rapists and victims terrorized by rape hysteria itself.
No. Juvenille facilties are for children who commit “Crimes” and so need to be kept away from society till they are rehabilitated. You make it seem like they are just filled with children for the feminist rape machine rather than because “kids commit crimes”.
We aren’t turning a blind eye to those. We are turning a blind eye to jackasses who use the rapes of those young boys to try and claim that there exists a feminist empire.
How fucking moronic must you be to make these claims in a world where there are 50 MILLION (A population bigger than South Korea, the 25th Biggest Country) females aborted or murdered in just India alone and claim that “it’s a feminist empire”. Do you grasp how Alex Jonesesque you sound?
There is no feminist empire. If there was, then 90% of Rapes wouldn’t happen to women and 99% of rapists wouldn’t be men according to the USA’s justice department for the year 2009. Those values would be reversed.
And then we normalize rape with posters that suggest rape is not the abnormal behavior of the emotionally damaged, but a manifestation of masculinity or male culture. Men will rape for trivial reasons because they saw a naked ankle, or porn or hear a rape joke. (Or are dope fiends or black or Jewish or…)
No. We point out it is a product of male privilege and development.
The Author claims that rape is a compulsion…
Every year in the USA 90,000 people report rapes. Roughly 900 of those are men. 99% of the people raped are raped by men. This means that 90,000 different incidents occur where a man has an uncontrollable urge to rape.
By normalizing rape, these posters do the opposite of what they intend. They empower rapists and disempower emotionally healthy men who would never rape. They promote a distorted, simplistic view of rape as an emergent property of maleness rather than an emergent property of sexual abuse.
That’s like suggesting the sign that says “Don’t Smoke” makes you smoke harder.
The problem here is that the author desperately wants a reason to exist for rape that isn’t the fault of men and rather than realise it’s due to a consistent social empowerment of men to get what they expect they would rather ignore the majority of rapes or claim it’s a compulsion.
As for male victims of female rapists, they never see themselves in these posters. They are never acknowledged at all. This forces the problem of female perpetrated sexual abuse underground; in fact we could see the existence of male-perpetuated sexual abuse as a symptom of our society’s absolute inability to recognize male victims and give them timely help.
Around 1% of all rapists are female. If women were raping people at an equal rate as men there would be a 50:50 split.
If 90,000 people in the USA are raped then 89,100 are raped by men and 900 by women.
Remind me again. Is 89,100 a bigger number than 900? The majority of rapists are men and therefore it makes sense to tailor any response to them in the same way that it makes sense to aim screening of breast cancer at women.
See? My gripe here is that there is no gay equivalent. 9000 men a year are raped and here too it’s mainly by other men. 8910 are raped by men, 90 by women by the ratios provided. So again if we wanted to reduce rapes in men it would be straight up better and more productive to aim posters at men again.
So how do we stop rape?
We acknowledge female rapists. We acknowledge why boys grow up to be rapists. We provide services for male survivors of sexual abuse so they have a place to heal. Not just to stop the cycle of abuse but because men and boys who are sexual abuse survivors deserve as much compassion as women and girls. We kick the ideologs out of our institutions of healing because what matters is helping people, not perpetuating feminist pseudoscience.
In this entire article the people who did more to damage the reasons why “Men Rape” are not the feminists but the MRAs who declared rape as a compulsive act. An example of a compulsion is OCD. The person cannot control how they wash their hands or close a door. It must be closed in a certain way. A rape compulsion means that the person MUST rape.
If we acknowledge female rapists in the USA and eliminate all female rape entirely you would drop the total male rape rate by just 1%.
And to date there are no MRAs to my knowledge actively campaigning for better healthcare for men, better psychiatric care for men and better sexual health clinics for men. Do you want to know who is more likely to do that?
We start by telling the feminists to shut the fuck up.
The statistics support me. The only way for you to deny those statistics is to create a grandiose feminist conspiracy.
And personally? I have done more for men than the average MRA. I have fought things that kill men and empowered them to break out of stupid stereotypes often perpetrated by MRAs. And rather than treating rape as a compulsion and men as nothing more than a bundle of rape reflexes, I have treated them as human beings who are in control of their actions.
And I know for a fact that men can stop raping by simply realising when their actions constitute rape and being self aware enough to realise it.
There is no ‘rape culture’ and if there is—if the idea of “rape culture” really is ‘a culture which enables rape’–you better start backpedaling because it’s looking like you’re the biggest purveyors of it.
No. A Voice For Me doesn’t get a free ride. Not after they weighed into the Delhi Rape case on the side of the men who were excusing rape. As far as I am concerned courtesy of India’s MASSIVE population and frankly astonishing rape and sexual harassment rates, A Voice for Men has thrown it’s hat firmly in the side of the rapists.
And they don’t care about the victims of sexual abuse. I don’t see A Voice for Men sponsor any events to help “men”. While I run healthcare clinics about proper diet, anti-smoking, anti-drinking, proper sexual health, proper health and safety, family planning and Diabetic/Hypertensive clinics. I have also tried my level best to fight the stigma of mental health issues in a country where psychiatric care is still associated with strait jackets. And when teaching about sexual health I have placed a massive onus on communication. Not only are women happier but men are too because women “enjoy” sex rather than being forced or coerced into it.
And from where I am standing the biggest protectors of rapists are A Voice for Men.