I Get Mail/A Voice for Me – How To Stop Rape

I got this in response to the post I did last night on the problem of The Indian Male vs the New Indian Male and how the education and treatment of men has to change in India.

I spent the day thinking about this. This is clearly a post from A Voice for Men that’s been cut and paste (I do check if my mail is just cut and pasted from somewhere else). And the problem here is that who ever is using this as a response has not understood the problem of privilege in an Indian context or even in a western context. Today’s piece comes from Typhonblue.

I’ll tell you first how you don’t stop rape.

Is it “by coddling men as special little fairies who get everything they want”?

Seeing a poster that says “My strength is not for hurting” or “don’t be that guy” won’t do anything that a law doesn’t.

Because posters do not work at all.

No urges to go see this what so ever…

And yes. I picked that poster for a reason. Superman is a male power fantasy but also one that’s actually really remarkable. The confident superman of yesteryear is replaced by the nuanced superman who is a slave to his powers. While the Man who has Everything may be the very epitome of masculinity, he is also plagued by insecurities. He has to pretend to be Clark Kent to be accepted in society. He bleeds for other men, literally throwing himself at monsters to protect others because “he can take it”. He has to hold back because other people cannot take it. Superman is the very epitome of self control. Unlike his enemies, the man of steel is powered by humanity which makes him the Superman that we all love. It’s not his powers that makes us love him but the fact that he is responsible with them because he lives in a world of cardboard.

What does this have to do with rape? Nothing if you can’t get the allegory. Superman is a hero because he understands his privilege and uses it for good. And even though he is considered naive (his opponent is a man with no real super powers and who wears a suit and that’s considered a good match for him) he is nuanced enough to utilise the privilege granted by what he is to help others. He could backhand a villain so hard his head flies off. But he does not because he uses his privilege for good. And it requires concentration.

Be that man.

It’s “easy” to throw your arm around a woman who is drunk and take advantage of her. Some women almost expect it. The power is in the hands of men to say no and change the way things work. And posters that remind you of how that occurs help.

The VAST majority of rapists are men on women followed by men on men. Women as rapists are a minority. This is well known. By targetting a demographic where there are a lot of popular assumptions about rape and telling them that some of these assumptions are wrong you are not harming that demographic. You are informing them.

You see an anti-rape law is sorta like an anti-rape poster except with a punishment attached for not following what the poster says.

Except anti-rape posters don’t seek to punish rapes but prevent them. The difference may be hard for the MRA to understand but prevention of rape is better than punishment. Let’s take the Steubenville Rape Trial. Who here thinks that the BEST outcome of that situation was the punishment of the two boys? Who here thinks that if there was a way to reduce that sort of behaviour by changing the culture of young men and indeed the society that helped create this terrible crime.

Prevention is better than the punishment.

So how is saying “men, don’t rape” going to be more effective than saying “men, don’t rape” and then adding “if you do, you go to jail?”

By informing men that there are some behaviours that are widely considered to be fun that are not acceptable and that doing them is considered rape, you will inform men that many actions they consider sensible are really not.

This goes back to the changes in the way we perceive women and men not being taught to change their perceptions and how they act.

Saying “Men! Don’t sleep with that passed out woman even if she says she wants it, because the alcohol judges her senses and it is rape. She will feel terrible. Don’t be that guy” is trying to create social responsibility in men rather than simply throw them into jails.

Because this is what these feminist inspired posters essentially are. They are a law, against rape, but without the actual criminal punishment. If the law isn’t an effective deterrent, than how is a poster going to be an effective deterrent?

The problem with “We were drunk and had sex” is that it is difficult to prosecute it as rape. That’s the “problem”. Because drunk people CAN give consent and alcohol makes you make bad decisions. These aren’t the law. These are just suggestions. Suggestions that make life better for women and men.

Are you honestly saying that “Don’t be that guy” deeply insults your masculinity such that the only way to assuage this is to channel the spirit of Ghenghis Khan and rape your way twice as hard as you would normally? OR you know, think about your actions. On some small level, you would understand that alcohol makes you make bad decisions and realise that those can also extend to bad decisions on who you sleep with.

Men who rape are not raping because they’ve been told it’s cool or fun or awesome, or because they heard an off color joke, saw a naked ankle or watched porn… they rape because they have a powerful emotional compulsion to do so.

Except this makes men GENUINELY FUCKING DANGEROUS. That there is some switch inside me that turns me into a rapist. That men who rape are not in control of their actions. Your actual argument is “that they cannot help it”.

Let’s get something clear. Human beings—barring the congenitally emotionally disabled such as sociopaths—don’t want to rape. They don’t like rape. Rape is the exact opposite of what a human being wants when they engage in sex. Men, who happen to be human beings just like women, want to feel desirable.

Except many men don’t see what they do as rape. They aren’t holding knives to throats or guns to heads as much as causally demonstrating the raw difference in average power. You are most likely to be raped by a friend or a partner than by some random stranger.

Most men are devastated after being rejected by a woman. What makes anyone think that the average man is going to enjoy enduring the most profound rejection one human being can muster for another—which is exactly what the rapist endures in order to rape.

Because we sell men the notion that women should simply drop whatever they are doing and be pleased that we are talking to them. Rejection WILL occur. Not every woman is attracted to you. Big Fucking Deal.

That’s like suggesting that you wish for a life where everything goes your way.

Again, the majority of rapists are men in relationships with the victim.

If you saw someone eating broken glass, would you assume the glass is tasty or conclude there’s something seriously wrong with the person chowing down?

Except this isn’t broken glass. It’s a very simplistic attitude to “rape” and assuming there is only one sort.

What the current crop of male targeted anti-rape posters will do is normalize rape. It won’t normalize rape for men who aren’t compelled to rape in the first place. Nope. It’ll just shame them. But it will normalize rape for men who are rapists.

How are you being ashamed by a poster that is telling men to be mindful of things that can be considered rape.

It isn’t normalising rape, it is pointing out that the majority of rapists are “men” who don’t realise that their actions constitute rape and that spreading awareness of the inherent power men currently have over women and how it is utilised doesn’t harm anyone.

Instead of seeing themselves as damaged individuals who are engaging not just in harm to others, but harm to themselves, rapists—male ones at least—will see themselves as the guys who do what every other guy really wants to do, but doesn’t have the balls.


A lot of rape is about power and getting what you want on demand. It’s frankly astonishing to hear that a poster informing men that they should not sleep with drunk women as drunk women may not be able to provide proper consent. Just think about your actions…

And this somehow normalises rape?

The “Rapist” stereotype is actually a rarity. You are more likely to be raped by someone you know and indeed “love” than someone who is a rapist.

They aren’t hurting, they’re edgy.


Rapists are in the business of rationalizing their compulsion to repeat, rationalizing their sense of powerlessness, and current anti-rape posters help them do just that. Rape is normal male behaviour, dontcha know? Something men teach each other to do when feminists aren’t there to stop them.

No. It’s not “normal male behaviour”. It’s a behaviour of privilege and of men being told that they can get what they want when they want.

The fact the author stated that getting shot down by a woman is so devastating is indicative that the author doesn’t understand that the only reason it’s devastating is that the author’s idea of a man is so used to getting his own way that this is the first time he has to deal with rejection.

Rapists are not compelled to rape. If they are then they are a serious psychiatric threat to society. They aren’t powerless, rape is about the exertion of power and it’s rationalised most often as “She’s my girlfriend or wife/she wanted it”.

The only way you can believe in this is if you don’t think that the majority of rape is “rape”.

But if jokes, naked ankles and porn don’t cause men to rape women, what does?

Being raped.

That’s right.  In fact, having been sexually abused by a  woman is a stronger risk factor for becoming a future sexual abuser in boys than having been sexually abused by a man.

Citation Needed…

And this only holds true if we talk about serial rapists and serial killers for whom sexual abuse is a MASSIVE indicator of possible reasons for having such an issue. However as I said the only way this may hold true is if you simply ignore date, spousal or drunken rape.

This is where the emotional compulsion to abuse comes from. This is the motivation. This is the manufacture process for adult male rapists.

Yet despite being sexually violated, only a fraction of these boys go on to abuse! That’s how resistant to raping the average male human is; even the most effective method of training a boy to become a rapist—by raping him–is only effective for one out of every ten boys.

Yet roughly 1 in 5 women claims to have been raped. Are you suggesting that all these women are raped by a “fraction” of these boys? They must be awfully busy.

And let’s take the Steubenville Rapists. Funny how neither of them turned out to have been abused as children yet managed to rape someone.

I am sorry, again the problem here is that the MRAs are willing to alleviate blame from men and portray rapists as individuals acting on instinct.

The idea that a bad joke, a naked ankle or porn will cause men to rape is demonizing. The idea that there exists a “rape culture” teaching men to rape in any way but by raping them and then ignoring their subsequent emotional disorder is depraved.

In response to the Delhi Rapes, there where various people in India who blamed the victim for being out “late” and having a “boyfriend”. There were people who blamed the boy who was attacked for not fighting off 6 men simultaneously let alone 6 men who were armed. Various politicians ignored the rape and made it out to be a political move to derail conversation rather than people genuinely wondering why society has fucked up that much. People blamed Jeans. People blamed Mobile Phones. They even blamed KFC.

Not one person was willing to stand up and point out that the misogynistic culture of India creates entitled men who think any demands made must be acquiesced to and so don’t see rape as rape but as “getting what they asked for”.

When the two young boys raped a young girl at Steubenville they were protected by a large proportion of the town. If that’s not a culture that protects rapists then I am a pidgeon.

And here’s the thing. Right now, in the US, there is an epidemic of  institutionalized sexual abuse that is being ignored in favor of manufactured statistics about sex trafficking of girls and other juicy sexualized and sensationalized threat narratives designed to push our buttons.

In fact this epidemic of sexual abuse makes the Catholic Church scandal pale in comparison.

Since the 1950s approximately 12,000 men have come forward to admit abuse in the Catholic Church sex scandal.

10,000 boys a year are being sexually abused by female staff in juvenile detention facilities in the US. A YEAR.

Okay and this is apparently the source of all rape? Which doesn’t explain why so many rapists have NEVER EVER BEEN TO PRISON.

And human traffic in the USA alone has resulted in more than 1 MILLION people in the country. What? You don’t think human traffic is for work? The majority of traffickers traffic workers rather than “girls for prostitution”.

Okay, 10,000 boys a year in the USA are sexually abused.

Then why not advocate for them? Why not fight for their rights? Why not do something for them? Instead of poisoning the well. I mean the literal argument here is that “Boys are being sexually abused in prisons often by women. Ergo? We should let other women get raped outside!”.

This is stupid. Not ONE FUCKING MRA to my knowledge has gone “Women get raped but I know that young men get raped and there are so many advocates for women there are none for men, so I am supporting them”.

So here’s the equation. Boys learn to be rapists by having been raped(even if only a fraction of them go on to enact their abuse), and we’re turning a blind eye to women raping boys in juvenile facilities—better termed “boy rape camps”—and then we’re ignoring, denying and minimizing female-on-male sexual abuse in order to prop up a morally bankrupt feminist empire built on the backs of rape victims—both victims of actual rapists and victims terrorized by rape hysteria itself.

No. Juvenille facilties are for children who commit “Crimes” and so need to be kept away from society till they are rehabilitated. You make it seem like they are just filled with children for the feminist rape machine rather than because “kids commit crimes”.

We aren’t turning a blind eye to those. We are turning a blind eye to jackasses who use the rapes of those young boys to try and claim that there exists a feminist empire.

How fucking moronic must you be to make these claims in a world where there are 50 MILLION (A population bigger than South Korea, the 25th Biggest Country) females aborted or murdered in just India alone and claim that “it’s a feminist empire”. Do you grasp how Alex Jonesesque you sound?

There is no feminist empire. If there was, then 90% of Rapes wouldn’t happen to women and 99% of rapists wouldn’t be men according to the USA’s justice department for the year 2009. Those values would be reversed.

And then we normalize rape with posters that suggest rape is not the abnormal behavior of the emotionally damaged, but a manifestation of masculinity or male culture. Men will rape for trivial reasons because they saw a naked ankle, or porn or hear a rape joke. (Or are dope fiends or black or Jewish or…)

No. We point out it is a product of male privilege and development.

The Author claims that rape is a compulsion…

Every year in the USA 90,000 people report rapes. Roughly 900 of those are men. 99% of the people raped are raped by men. This means that 90,000 different incidents occur where a man has an uncontrollable urge to rape.

By normalizing rape, these posters do the opposite of what they intend. They empower rapists and disempower emotionally healthy men who would never rape. They promote a distorted, simplistic view of rape as an emergent property of maleness rather than an emergent property of sexual abuse.

That’s like suggesting the sign that says “Don’t Smoke” makes you smoke harder.

The problem here is that the author desperately wants a reason to exist for rape that isn’t the fault of men and rather than realise it’s due to a consistent social empowerment of men to get what they expect they would rather ignore the majority of rapes or claim it’s a compulsion.

As for male victims of female rapists, they never see themselves in these posters. They are never acknowledged at all. This forces the problem of female perpetrated sexual abuse underground; in fact we could see the existence of male-perpetuated sexual abuse as a symptom of our society’s absolute inability to recognize male victims and give them timely help.

Around 1% of all rapists are female. If women were raping people at an equal rate as men there would be a 50:50 split.

If 90,000 people in the USA are raped then 89,100 are raped by men and 900 by women.

Remind me again. Is 89,100 a bigger number than 900? The majority of rapists are men and therefore it makes sense to tailor any response to them in the same way that it makes sense to aim screening of breast cancer at women.

See? My gripe here is that there is no gay equivalent. 9000 men a year are raped and here too it’s mainly by other men. 8910 are raped by men, 90 by women by the ratios provided. So again if we wanted to reduce rapes in men it would be straight up better and more productive to aim posters at men again.

So how do we stop rape?

We acknowledge female rapists. We acknowledge why boys grow up to be rapists. We provide services for male survivors of sexual abuse so they have a place to heal. Not just to stop the cycle of abuse but because men and boys who are sexual abuse survivors deserve as much compassion as women and girls. We kick the ideologs out of our institutions of healing because what matters is helping people, not perpetuating feminist pseudoscience.

In this entire article the people who did more to damage the reasons why “Men Rape” are not the feminists but the MRAs who declared rape as a compulsive act. An example of a compulsion is OCD. The person cannot control how they wash their hands or close a door. It must be closed in a certain way. A rape compulsion means that the person MUST rape.

If we acknowledge female rapists in the USA and eliminate all female rape entirely you would drop the total male rape rate by just 1%.

And to date there are no MRAs to my knowledge actively campaigning for better healthcare for men, better psychiatric care for men and better sexual health clinics for men. Do you want to know who is more likely to do that?


We start by telling the feminists to shut the fuck up.

Dear MRAs.

The statistics support me. The only way for you to deny those statistics is to create a grandiose feminist conspiracy.

And personally? I have done more for men than the average MRA. I have fought things that kill men and empowered them to break out of stupid stereotypes often perpetrated by MRAs. And rather than treating rape as a compulsion and men as nothing more than a bundle of rape reflexes, I have treated them as human beings who are in control of their actions.

And I know for a fact that men can stop raping by simply realising when their actions constitute rape and being self aware enough to realise it.

There is no ‘rape culture’ and if there is—if the idea of “rape culture” really is ‘a culture which enables rape’–you better start backpedaling because it’s looking like you’re the biggest purveyors of it.

Ah yes.

No. A Voice For Me doesn’t get a free ride. Not after they weighed into the Delhi Rape case on the side of the men who were excusing rape. As far as I am concerned courtesy of India’s MASSIVE population and frankly astonishing rape and sexual harassment rates, A Voice for Men has thrown it’s hat firmly in the side of the rapists.

And they don’t care about the victims of sexual abuse. I don’t see A Voice for Men sponsor any events to help “men”. While I run healthcare clinics about proper diet, anti-smoking, anti-drinking, proper sexual health, proper health and safety, family planning and Diabetic/Hypertensive clinics. I have also tried my level best to fight the stigma of mental health issues in a country where psychiatric care is still associated with strait jackets. And when teaching about sexual health I have placed a massive onus on communication. Not only are women happier but men are too because women “enjoy” sex rather than being forced or coerced into it.

And from where I am standing the biggest protectors of rapists are A Voice for Men.


  1. smrnda says

    I’m not even sure in that disorganized rant whether or not the person believes that rapists are sociopaths who are simply beyond help or not. I mean, yeah, there probably are men like that, but when most people break social rules they do so because of some sort of justification. The ‘don’t be that guy’ says “Hey, that justification is rubbish, you know what you’re doing.” And yeah, it works the way that we’ve not just made driving while drunk illegal but made it into something that we all think of as horribly reckless and idiotic.

    It also seems like they’re pulling out the usual “all men who victimize women were victimized by women and it’s all because society doesn’t feel their pain” argument. Hey, I studied psychology and sociology and yeah, we looked at sexual abuse of boys by men and women. I don’t think this is arcane knowledge. If anyone is responsible for male sex abuse victims of women not getting help, it’s the whole idea that guys have to be sex maniacs who always want more, which isn’t an attitude that feminists are perpetuating.

  2. zhuge, le homme blanc qui ne sait rien mais voudrait says

    I agree with nearly everything you wrote. However, I do have one qualm. You state: “An example of a compulsion is OCD. The person cannot control how they wash their hands or close a door. It must be closed in a certain way. A rape compulsion means that the person MUST rape.” Speaking as someone with OCD, that’s not right and both a little insulting, but mostly a touch dangerous. OCD is about an overactive fear response with a certain ritual that might prevent that fear, generally. Having a compulsion doesn’t force one to do so and with effort and CBT/medication it is very possible to at least come to a healthy state with regards to these things. But what is really worrisome is you say that someone with a rape compulsion “must rape”. The reason I think this is dangerous is that a very common form of OCD is one where people are afraid of hurting people, and often comes in a form where they are afraid of murdering, hurting or raping people. This never causes these to happen, because it is an obsession, but I worry that by conflating these you might trigger suicidal thoughts or depression in people with those forms of OCD. (I think, though not 100% sure that there is an increased risk of suicide in people with OCD.)

    Obviously not your intent, of course, but I think that it perhaps misunderstands OCD to say that the door “has to be this way”. I mean, my fingers “need to move a certain way” in order for me not to get terrified sometimes, but if I had to kill someone to perform that ritual I could certainly stand not to, even though it would be scary to not do the ritual. I guess I worry that you might be denying agency to people with OCD or something. Anyway, sorry about that, I agree with you on all the rest!

  3. CaitieCat says

    What gets me about it is that he clearly personally believes that the only reason not to rape is that he might go to jail for it. What the posters are saying is, “Don’t do this because it’s morally wrong.” And he can’t imagine a world where a suggestion that something is morally wrong would have any effect on a man choosing whether or not to rape.

    So what he’s saying is, “If I’m in a spot where the law can’t catch me, don’t close your eyes, don’t blink, don’t even blink, because I’ll be on you FAST…”

    Sort of a Creeping Angel.

    In the end, from my view as someone regularly faced with Schroedinger’s Rapist, is to assume that anyone making the kind of argument above (that only fear of punishment is keeping them from raping now) is a) saying that men are no better than dogs, and b) that he’s a strong candidate to be a rapist himself.

  4. MJ says

    ***trigger warning***

    I was raped multiple times in my teens by my first boyfriend. It started with him pressuring me to keep having sex after he’d dumped me. At first it was all consensual and ‘in good fun’ but as time went on he started chasing away other guys who were interested in me and drilled in to my head that I was too mentally ill (I was suffering from depression through a lot of this) to be in a relationship. He used to say over and over ‘you belong to me’ and ‘you’re not allowed to go out anywhere without me, its too dangerous for you’. If I called him on this manipulation he’d either start a fight and yell abuse at me or laugh and tell me he was ‘only joking’.

    It turned in to rape when he continued to demand sex from me even while dating someone else. All the excuses I had made in his defence for his behaviour evaporated and I lost all respect. He disgusted me yet if I tried to tell him no he knew exactly what to say and do to quell me to silence. I felt trapped so I just put up with it, I choked back vomit as he’d rape me from behind, showered sometimes for a full hour afterwards just scrubbing away at my genitals till they were raw and so on. That year was the worst in my whole life and when he finally stopped wanting me I felt huge relief. Nowhere did I detect any uncontrollable compulsion from this guy to rape me, he had to manipulate and pressure me a good deal before it got to the stage where I felt too trapped to speak. He was aware of what he was doing, all that he did was by his own choice. Rape culture is such an important issue that needs to be addressed on all levels of society. My ex doesn’t know he raped me and there will will never get any justice for what he put me through. Everything that MRA says is dead wrong.

  5. Stacy says

    The MRA who wrote that email is ignorant.

    Some well-known surveys blow his premises out of the water:

    54% of the women surveyed had been the victims of some form of sexual abuse; more than one in four college-aged women had been the victim of rape or attempted rape;

    · 57% of the assaults occurred on dates;

    · 73% of the assailants and 55% of the victims had used alcohol or other drugs prior to the assault;

    · 25% of the men surveyed admitted some degree of sexually aggressive behavior;

    · 42% of the victims told no one.

    – In a survey of high school students, 56% of the girls and 76% of the boys believed forced sex was acceptable under some circumstances. (ref 5)

    One in 12 admitted to committing acts that met the legal definitions of rape, and 84% of men who committed rape did not label it as rape.(ref 6,7)


    They promote a distorted, simplistic view of rape as an emergent property of maleness rather than an emergent property of sexual abuse.

    Of course this campaign doesn’t promote the idea that rape is an “emergent property of maleness” at all; rather the opposite. I’ve seen this sort of word salad from MRAs before. It suggests to me that they, like creationists, think that impressive-sounding terms (“emergent property”) are indicative of Deep Thought, and actually understanding the concepts is unnecessary.

  6. thumper1990 says

    Starts out denying the data, claims rape is painful for the rapist, pulls some theories out of his arse, then makes it all about the menz.

    What a gigantic douchecanoe.

  7. Sercee says

    The whole thing is revolting, but the part that stands out to me in his blame shifting game is that he keeps saying men only rape because the women raped them first. Someone has to be blamed, but it ain’t the men, it was the women, always the women, the men can’t have been the ones to start the cycle, they’re just the ones who are now compelled to repeat what the evil women began.

    There’s an admission that someone is to blame for rape and that it’s wrong. It just can’t be him.

  8. says

    Everything that MRA says is dead wrong.

    I could add my own detailed fisking, but, yeah, MJ’s concluding sentence pretty much sums it up. This guy has no fucking clue what he’s talking about, and his blame-shifting is downright desperate and pathetic. Especially the bit about “men don’t enjoy rape,” which is flat-out false. A rapist may not get the transcendant bliss that comes from the most fantastic lovemaking on Earth, but he pretty surely does enjoy raping a woman, in much the same way as a bully enjoys beating up on an easy victim. At the very least, a rapist feels better after raping a woman than he did before. This guy’s attempt to deny such an obvious fact really shows what a whiny little shit he is. And that’s just the beginning of where he’s wrong.

  9. glodson says

    A great takedown.

    And I fucking hate MRA’s. It isn’t just that they are blindingly stupid. It isn’t just that try to prop up their privilege with rationalizations which are insulting. It isn’t just that they manage to be insultingly misogynistic and misandristic at the same time.

    It is that they try to co-opt legitimate issues and problems as a smokescreen for their inane rape apologetics. This guy doesn’t give a fuck about the children raped in this country. He doesn’t care, he just throws it up to deflect the discussion. He just wants people to not talk about rape. To not acknowledge the problem. Much like when these assholes talk about men who are the victims of domestic violence. They don’t really care, they just want to have an excuse to bust out a tu quoque that doesn’t even make the least bit of sense.

    Fuck, most of us realize that acknowledging and dealing with the gender issues that fuel rape culture will help everyone. Men included.

  10. S Mukherjee says

    Thanks Avi, for reading through the MRA sludge — I wouldn’t be able to continue beyond the first sentence, it makes me so angry!

    MJ — what a horrifying situation you were in. I wish nobody lived in a world where they were put through that. Sending you virtual hugs.

    I read the website OutlookIndia.com regularly, and whenever there is any news article on a rape (which happens pretty much every day), there is this noxious commenter going by the username ‘Male Unblocked, Chennai’, who pops up to argue that there is excessive reporting of rapes and that feminists are encouraging such reporting in order to whip up anti-male sentiment and breed a ‘fear psychosis’.

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