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Not the Ducks – A homeopathic challenge

A Gallon? Really!

Apparently nowadays I am a big pharma dog, simply for the belief that real medicine is superior to homeopathy. Big pharma has not got me anything bigger than a really shitty disposable ball point pen. Apparently I have skipped out on the going rate for big pharma hand outs and opted to be paid in good wishes and pats on the back.

          Notice that they never consume their own medicines in large doses? Chemotherapy? Statin drugs? Blood thinners? They wouldn’t dare drink those.

We as humans have nearly 4 billion years of life to get us to this and we still work on the razor’s edge of homeostatic balance. When we are sick, the homeostatic balance is lost leaving us feeling ill. Our body is a system where different functions are dependent on each other. Like a see saw, you push one side down the other side goes up. However you can bring the other side down again by putting more weight on it or removing some weight from the other side. With that in mind understand that real medication works because it has a series of effects on the body that have a series of knock on effects.

Chemotherapy by nature is unsafe because it is a poison to kill cancer cells. You do know how cancer is caused right? There is a general break down of cell control mechanisms which results in uncontrollable cell division. This leads to incorrect cell development. Statins? Again. Blood thinners? Yes because they thin out the blood. If you don’t have a disease you don’t take these things because they will make you sick or worse, kill you.

Your homeopathic medications are just water. You can overdose on them eventually but not before we do because your medications have no effect. For instance, if you have Angina Pectoralis, you need to thin out your blood to increase blood flow. You may also need an angioplasty to help prevent a heart attack or bypass surgery. This is because there is a lack of oxygen to the heart that manifests during stress. This causes cell injury causing pain and since nerves to the heart also supply the left shoulder you get radiating pain there. Your medication is plain water. So it has no effect beyond that of a placebo while ours thins the blood improving circulation. Say what you want the main issue of angina pectoralis is that it’s indicative that your heart is not getting enough oxygen to itself. The pain is not as important as what is going on under the skin.

All that happens when you drink a homeopathic medication is you think you are getting better but you are just ignoring the issue.

         And in their world, all drugs are dangerous if you overdose on them, which makes sense from their point of view because they’re educated solely in dangerous, synthetically-derived chemicals that are incompatible with the human body. 

A lot of our drugs are actually naturally occurring elements synthesised artificially in bulk. A lot of natural things are bad for your health. Like rattlesnake venom. Eating your meat raw and sleeping in trees is natural but a good way to end up with severe parasite infestations and broken bones. Medicine is dangerous that’s why we need to learn so much and keep learning throughout our careers.

         It’s a remarkable advantage! It means that while 200,000+ Americans are killed each year by toxic pharmaceutical drugs, no one is harmed by homeopathy. Not even those who are desperately trying to be harmed by it!

Of course not! You cannot be killed by drinking phials of pure water! You can however die from the original disease. 200,000 patients die in the USA as a result of our care. A fair lot of them are things like Cancer patients who normally would have died within months without our care. Many of them are terminally ill patients whose death is hastened by medication they take to improve the quality of life. 

I as a medic am not saying that prescription medicine is safe. It is not, which is why it is on prescription. What I am saying is to understand that it is designed to cause effects that improve the vast majority of cases that we get. It’s playing a numbers game. If your treatment works 90% of the time it means it does not work 10% of the time.

          But homeopathy isn’t a chemical. It’s a resonance. A vibration, or a harmony. It’s the restructuring of water to resonate with the particular energy of a plant or substance. We can get into the physics of it in a subsequent article, but for now it’s easy to recognize that even from a conventional physics point of view, liquid water has tremendous energy, and it’s constantly in motion, not just at the molecular level but also at the level of its subatomic particles and so-called “orbiting electrons” which aren’t even orbiting in the first place.  Electrons are vibrations and not physical objects.

This is just garbage. I am embarrassed for your education. It was clearly insufficient. This is stuff 14 year old children know. There is no energy of a plant or a substance that is stored in electrons, if there was I am pretty sure we could pump electricity directly into you and heal you not electrocute you. Electrons are probability densities of negative charge. Not “Vibrations”.

          For now, they’ve all convinced themselves that electrons are — get this — tiny “particles” flying around atomic nuclei and tremendous speeds which just happen to stay in their little orbits like little perpetual motion machines (which they say are impossible), until all of a sudden, these electron “particles” inexplicably leap to a higher or lower orbit without occupying the space in-between those orbits at any moment. Yep, magic teleporting particles! That’s the “scientific” explanation of these folks. No wonder so many of them are magicians: Believing their explanations requires that you believe in particle magic!

Now this is not my forte… I am but a humble applied biologist here. But I know one thing. The electrons are not charged particles but are areas of negative charge present in discrete shells around the nuclei of atoms. 

         Homeopathy works much the same way: You can drink a few drops or a few gallons. It’s the same harmony being introduced into your body’s living cells, regardless of the quantity.

Ah yes, a grandiose claim. I would actually stop you from doing that. Too much water can kill you.

 Hence their promotion of vaccines, pharmaceuticals, chemotherapy and water fluoridation.

Vaccines have saved an exponential number of lives. We have forgotten the scourge of disease in the west so we bandy around such talk. The fact is this. Tuberculosis kills, the BCG vaccine saves countless lives from systemic TB. Polio cripples, the polio drop saves lives. Each vaccine quantifiably improves the lives of people as a whole.

Medicine has improved our life expectancy from 40 to 80 and reduced our infant mortality rate from around 120 per 1000 to just 4 per 1000. Fluoridation is vital in health and is one of the cheapest things that can be done to improve dental hygiene and water cleanliness.

Frankly our drugs are dangerous because they affect your body, a lot of natural things do too like curare (we use it to stop hearts during open heart surgery to save lives), or atropine (for a whole bunch of reasons) and even salicylic acid (willow bark asprin).

You are nothing more than a charlatan, a quack and a purveyor of false of medication. The people you fool do not understand and to them your drugs make sense while ours do not for the simple fact that medicine, real medicine, is hard to understand while your malarkey is understandable.

As for your challenge, if you were medically trained you would know that drinking a gallon of anything would kill you irrespective of what the contents were. A gallon of water is a dangerous thing to drink in one stretch and people have died from drinking that much water before. Your challenge is flawed irrespective of your medication since even your water and fruit drinks would be lethal at those levels.

If you wish wish to test the abilities of our drugs, then how about we test on something old and infamous. Mycobacterium Leprae was a scourge of civilisation with sufferers dating back since man first drew pictures on caves.  I know where we can find a lot of lepers and I know a place where belief in your medication is strong and where you are allowed to use your drugs on people. It is simple, we take 15 people, divided them into three groups. One group gets a placebo, one group gets your choice of homeopathic medication and one group gets ours. The individuals are randomised and we won’t know who will be getting what treatment till the result. It would be run for 9 months.

It is a simple test, there is only cure or no cure. There is no immunity to deal with leprosy sufferers. It’s either win or lose. So how about it?  

Comments

  1. M, Supreme Anarch of the Queer Illuminati says

    until all of a sudden, these electron “particles” inexplicably leap to a higher or lower orbit without occupying the space in-between those orbits at any moment. Yep, magic teleporting particles! That’s the “scientific” explanation of these folks

    Why am I not surprised that they’re quantum mechanics denialists? Of course, given their claims regarding the behavior of water, it makes sense that they’d end up horribly confused about the processes that cause chemicals such as water to behave as they do in the first place. (Certain parts of quantum mechanics for physics undergrads include, basically, “…and if we continue in that direction, we have chemistry.” Seriously — without quantum effects in electrons, chemistry as we know it doesn’t work.)

  2. VeganAtheistWeirdo says

    your malarkey is understandable

    It is? Not to me. But it does use a lot of positive-sounding sunshiny language, which is probably more persuasive to the target audience than actual data or explanation. I agree, this is dangerous quackery, in some cases maybe criminally so.

  3. says

    Electrons are probability densities of negative charge. Not “Vibrations”. … The electrons are not charged particles but are areas of negative charge present in discrete shells around the nuclei of atoms.

    Not quite. An electron in an orbital around an atom occupies one of a set of discrete energy levels determined primarily by the number of protons in the atomic nucleus, but modified slightly by the number of neutrons in the nucleus and by the number of other electrons bound to the atom. But the energy of the electron is not the same as a single position in space. The orbitals do have distinct probability distribution functions for position, but they are fuzzy and only some of them are spherical. E.g. in carbon, you normally have 2 electrons in spherically-symmetric orbitals predominately close to the nucleus, 2 in spherically-symmetric orbitals predominately somewhat further out, and 2 oscillating between six nearly-equal-energy orbitals that are shaped like hourglasses. The former are called ‘s-orbitals’ and the latter ‘p-orbitals’.

    The exact values of the energy levels can be computed by solving the relativistic wave equation for stable solutions (this is a generalization of the Schrödinger equation, first described in 1925). The stable solutions for electrons in atoms and molecules correspond to mutually-exclusive solutions to that wave function. It is convenient to express the quantum-mechanical wave function of a particle, describing its probability distribution function, as a superposition of oscillating functions of different frequencies and amplitude. And that mathematical convenience leads to all manner of misunderstandings by people who haven’t had it properly explained.

    There is also no ‘magic teleportation’ – the wave function gives a probability distribution function, and a particle may happen to end up on the other side of a barrier just by those random fluctuations (quantum tunneling). If that energy state is lower than the one you started with, the particle will be very likely to stay there even if the initial tunneling was very unlikely to happen. If you add in energy, say in the form of a photon, you can change the wavefunction so that the probability of an electron staying in its current energy state is low and it will almost certainly transition to a higher energy state.

    As for your challenge, if you were medically trained you would know that drinking a gallon of anything would kill you irrespective of what the contents were. A gallon of water is a dangerous thing to drink in one stretch and people have died from drinking that much water before.

    LD50 for rapid water consumption is ~10% body mass, isn’t it?

    I know where we can find a lot of lepers and I know a place where belief in your medication is strong and where you are allowed to use your drugs on people. It is simple, we take 15 people, divided them into three groups. One group gets a placebo, one group gets your choice of homeopathic medication and one group gets ours. The individuals are randomised and we won’t know who will be getting what treatment till the result. It would be run for 9 months.

    Such a trial seems unethical, given that the standard of care for leprosy is so effective. But this makes me worry: how much of the continued presence of leprosy in India is due to people not accepting rifampicin+dapsone (or other multi-drug therapy, if the treatments have been changed), and how much is lack of availability of the drugs?

  4. says

    @myself:

    Additional bit of quantum mechanics:

    An electron (and a proton and a neutron and every other particle in the universe) is a fuzzy thing. You can knock one out of an atom and measure where it is in space. You’ll get a fuzzy position measurement with the spread determined by how much momentum the electron has, but there will be a single definite peak that you can call at particle.

    You can run electrons at a plate with two slits in it. Most of them will be stopped by the plate, but the remainder will go through both slits at the same time (given that the slits are identical) and come out the other side. If you measure the electron’s position after that, you will get a single definite answer, but it will not be predictable in advance except as an interference pattern of two wave functions.

  5. Divizna says

    Actually – electrons are a form of energy, all matter is (which obviously doesn’t make them not physical objects). It seems very much the person you’re polemicising with has read some quantum theory somewhere… and misunderstood it really badly. The resulting science-immitating gibberish is way, way farther from truth than sticking with the planetary, or even the old pudding model would be.

  6. mendel says

    Mika Adams, the “Health Ranger”, seems to have forgotten about how Homeopathy is supposed to work. Hahnemann’s idea was to cure diseases by similarity (hence the “homos” in the name). He’d find some poisonous weed that would produce the same symptoms a patient had, dilute that (because it is poisonous, duh), and prescribe it.

    So, yes, if you took the ingredients of a homepathic medicine undiluted, you’d get as ill as you would get from pharmaceutic medication. Still up for that challenge, Mike?

  7. Jon M says

    Electrons or electirc fields mainfest themselves in our physical world in certain measurable ways. Understanding these interactions can be aided with the use of simple models or metaphors if you like. So when the interactions are particle like we talk about electons as particles, and when wave like we explain them as waves.

    But this is not what we think they are. our deepest understanding of the “electron” comes from quantum mechanics, which unfortunately has no good real-world metaphor to aid in an explanation.

    As for homeopathy I’ll be impressed when someone shows me a device that can measure the vibrations (or whatever) imparted to the water. If its a real-world physical effect then it should be measurable. If not then they should stop being dishonest, they talk about various physical mechanism that homeopathy might work by but how could they know the mechanism unless it had been measured, and if it has been measured then surely we can measure it again?

  8. mendel says

    Jon, it is a fallacy to believe that what we can’t measure doesn’t exist.

    On the other hand, it is a fallacy to identify a mathematical model of reality (the statistical models of quantum theory and beyond) with reality itself. They’re models, and thus they are not reality.

    If homeopathy works by utilizing the placebo effect (which is scientifically proven and accepted), then there is no need to scientifically verify the mechanism by which it is said to work, because that would only diminish the effectiveness of it.

  9. Sercee says

    “It’s the restructuring of water to resonate with the particular energy of a plant or substance.”

    I would love to know how they’re going about restructuring water. All they’re really doing is making really, incredibly weak tea.

  10. TiminBigD says

    “Frankly our drugs are dangerous because they affect your body, a lot of natural things do too like curare (we use it to stop hearts during open heart surgery to save lives)”

    Actually, we use a concentrated potassium solution to stop the heart. The curare derived drugs temporarily paralyze skeletal muscles.

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