Rationalthinker has come to dispute my stance on Fox News Atheism Post. And so I have a proper response both here and in the comments to his latest post.
The author continuously asserts that God does not exist no more than fairies, or Santa. The thing with fairies and santa is we KNOW from life experience that they do not exist, nobody doubts this. We KNOW from life experience, that God does indeed exist, you just choose to ignore the information in front of you.
You mean Jehovah? How droll…
I’m guessing as how nobody took issue with my HISTORICAL argument on how science only helps the christian world view that no more needs to be said about the universe we live in. Secondly NOT all religions are the same. Sam Harris himself even says you cannot lump christianity in with buddhism, islam, hinduism, etc, because they are NOT all equal.
No. The Bible’s historical veracity is repeated by Hinduism’s veracity and Buddhism’s veracity as the Last Avatar and the Founder of the faith was a historical figure too. Just because “Whitey didn’t care” about my culture you know nothing about it.
I know about yours though. This is because I educated myself. I would like to see this Sam Harris quote.
Hinduism is just as historically verified and the existence of Ishwara is just as strong as your Jehovah.
The bible has been demonstrated through historical FACT to be reliable. You can twist and turn and read all the vague blogs you want by all these pail faced pseudo intellectuals who absolutely refuse to conform to secular opinion on the bible. Yes secular scholars agree the people, places, and particulars are all true with regard to the bible.
You mean like Siddartha Gauthama and Bodhgaya? Or Ayodhya? Or Thirupathi? Or Allahabad?
And dear Christian. It’s physically impossible for me to be pale faced. Not unless I take up mime.
Secular historical sources such as Pliny the unger, Justin the martyr, josephus, tacitus, thallus, the jewish talmud, even by ponteous pilate himself, in the acts of pilot, refer to the birth, life, death and most important resurrection of Christ.
Yawn… no they don’t. And if you had an ounce of brain you wouldn’t be arguing with an ex-hindu who can happily pull out the same sources. Because if we just look online I have plenty of sources that collaborate the existence of Wizards. London exists does it not? And there are plenty of authors who aren’t J.K. Rowling who support the existence of wizards.
You mean we should assume that the all the biblical sources are accurate for no apparent reason that a bunch of white people believe in them but assume brown people’s beliefs aren’t equal? You do realise your argument smacks of the arseholery of Empire where “Indian literature” was considered pointless and where libraries were destroyed because they didn’t matter. You frankly know absolutely nothing about Hinduism apart from what your priests tell you and they know even less.
And mentioning the Acts of Pilate? A piece of work known to be a forgery? Very amusing…
Using only secular information, which scholars have done, it is totally congruent with the bible. The reason the bible seems so confusing and crazy, is because you have to know how to read it!
Non Timidus Messor…
I read the vulgate. Your Bible is based on the one I read when I was younger. Oh if you want to be proper impressed?
Bismillah, Al Rahman al Rahim,
Al Hamdullalah Al-Ameen
Maliki yawmi addeen
Iyyaka Naabudu Wa-iyyaka Nastaaheen
I can recite the Quran too. Well I used to. Now I have to read the damn thing. You picked the polyglot of FTB.
I have read the three biggest religion’s books in the languages they are meant to be read in. And they are all equally bullshit.
Latin/Arabic/Sanskrit. I don’t speak them well but I can speak them enough to know what I am reading is bullshit. Oh and BTW? Mohammed is just as historical a figure with a well documented history as Jesus but the same rule of “White Guys Only Count” applies here.
Like I said before you can’t just pick a verse and make a case around it. The bible was written by men who were inspired by God, therefore the information in the bible is reliable.
Except we totally can.
If the Bible was inspired by Jehovah who claims to be a moral god then he would have had a stance that condemned slavery, genocide and rape. Yet the book contains lines where Jehovah exhorts his followers to enslave, rape and commit genocide. At no point does the book say “No. These things are bad”. In fact the Bible spends more time banning you from eating owls than it does from banning the ownership of human beings or the elimination of a group of people based on their ethnicity. And this is as a whole.
66 books written and all them the same message. It should be difficult to read. You should read a passage then sit there and ponder what it means. You’ve read what it said now you must think long and hard what it is that the bible trying to communicate to you.
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever. – Leviticus
Leviticus is the transcribed word of an allegedly (Judges 1:19 says otherwise) almighty god who is allegedly (clearly not) the source of all that is good and honest and decent and moral…
That seems like instructions on how to own people. As Slaves. Ponder what you like. Leviticus is a “Do and Do Not List”. This is not moral. This is immoral.
Now here is the thing. You either have to accept that Jehovah is not the source of all morality and that you are more moral by throwing away the stupid laws of your god.
Or you have to accept the fact that your god is a slaver.
And if you knew anything about the History of the Bible you would know that the message in the books is roughly the same because it was compiled by a group of people and edited. It’s the same reason why a Novel or a Newspaper fits nicely together. Editors…
Everything in the old testament points towards the new testament and the fulfillment through Christ. I say this as a back story to bring it back to the slavery argument. Like I said before in 1 Timothy the bible puts slave traders in an awful category and are looked down upon. I don’t know how you keep sticking to blatant untruth!
You mean the same Timothy (6:1) that exhorts slaves to stay slaves?
Yet it says absolutely nothing about NOT OWNING SLAVES. Here’s a hint? Know why Muslims and Jews don’t eat Pork? Because their book explicitly says “no Pork”. The Bible doesn’t explicitly say no Slaves but infact accepts slavery as normal and a good thing and even tells you who to enslave. The problem with Christians is that they forget that we have read their book too. And we read it with the same eye we read science. Especially since Leviticus is the word of your god after all…
The bible teaches that man has intrinsic value and is worth something, that you are special. That’s the over all message in the bible this is what you DO NOT seem to understand.
No. The Bible teaches you that you are inherently sinful because you don’t match up to the alleged perfect standard of a slave holding, rapist and ethnic cleanser…
Trust me your Bible doesn’t claim you have any intrinsic value. And you aren’t special because a magic man says so. You are special because you are human and are potentially capable of amazing things.
We did more amazing things because we stopped believing in “magic” and started actually explaining how the world worked. We did more amazing things when we stopped people doing things based on how much they believe in a god and instead on what would make the world better. Your faith is part of the method by which the west raped and pillaged the third world. Your initial history lesson is terrifyingly bad.
Hinduism is the oldest continuous religion on the planet. It predates Judaism. Some of it’s gods are stone age deities. Buddhism is very new compared to Hinduism and Buddhism is about as old as Judaism. However India was ruined because India was never a unified country in it’s history and over the 300 odd years the British were around India tore itself apart through the collapse of it’s dominant power resulting in power struggles and fractured states that allowed it’s take over.
Not because of Hinduism. Oh and learn a little about the world. Hindus had a heliocentric solar system with a leap year system. They were very strong astronomers and indeed very strong mathematicians. Want to know why?
Because you use their numbers. You call them Arabic Numerals. The Arabs call them Hindu Numerals. The decimalised system is a hindu invention. Modern science couldn’t take place without it.
Oh and western destruction of Hindu culture means that a lot of Indian technology is denigrated or unknown. A good example of this was Bose who was not given a Nobel prize for his achievements despite his theories being the reason we build the Large Hadron Collider.
Why? Einstein thought his work was good. I can even tell you the tale of Ramanajum who any mathematician here would squee over (A self taught math prodigy who died young but whose mathematics were considered sublime and elegant.)
Remember Gandhi never won a peace prize. A man considered the epitome of peace never won one. Because at the time people were rather racist. Brown people rarely won stuff. And keep that in mind when you wonder why there were no “Indian Scientists”.
This is where I can’t understand how you keep saying outright contradictions on the view of slavery in the bible. (And i’m sure that this is NOT the reason you don’t believe there is a creator is because of slavery….right?
I don’t believe in your particular god because you have provided no evidence of it’s existence what so ever.
Not one atom of proof has been submitted from any religion about the existence of their god. Your bible doesn’t count because I will submit Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone as a reason to fear Voldemort.
If we took the sum total of science and your Christianity and wiped both from humanity. Then humanity would redevelop science to the exact way we know the world to work today while whatever you come up with will not be the same as Christianity but will be an entirely different superstition.
And remember. We are both Atheists here. I just don’t believe in one more god. The way you think “Shiva” is fake is the way Muslims think your Jehovah is fake and is the way I think all three gods are not real.
Besides it’s not the bibles view of slavery as you all keep pointing out, it was the 1 century view on slavery, which happened to be when those sections of scripture were written so they are working within the guide lines of their time. WHICH STILL DOES NOT CONDONE SLAVERY!! You CANNOT take what we know as a society now and look back 5000 years and say the bible is awful because “look what they were doing!!!”
Your mathematics is a bit faulty there (probably all those Hindu numbers you keep using) but mosaic law dates back to at the earliest 1200 BC which makes it 3000 years old rather than 5000 years old. But back on topic…
Actually you can. Your entire claim is that Jehovah is “perfect” and that he is the source of all morality. This is a repeated claim by Christians and is integral to their doctrine. It accuses people like myself (who are atheists) of moral relativism (or you know “thinking about our actions”. )
You claim that 3000 years ago everyone thought slavery was okay so your particular god in his infinite wisdom supported it. And then suddenly they didn’t and everyone ignored the bits where Jehovah exhorts you to own slaves. Then what is the point of your morality and your Bible if you claim to be the gospel word of a perfect being but then make the claim that you couldn’t know better because no body else did?
Then what are you for? You have just proved that the Bible is woefully inadequate as a moral guide despite claiming to be the zenith of possible morality. All you have done is proven that humanity has exceeded the Bible’s grasp and understanding. All you have done is proven it’s irrelevance as a moral code and as a guide of any sort.