I got this from a long time ex-MRA who wanted to see my opinion on this. Primarily because I speak as someone who lies between two different cultures and so has seen the progress western culture has made in the treatment of women compared to the Indian side of my culture. So with this in mind let’s cover A Voice for Men’s article on “Why Women Need Men‘s Human Rights movement”. Or basically…
There’s been some talk recently about A Voice for Men having another SENIOR Editor who is a woman, and news of two more also on the way. It’s been along the lines of “Well, now that women have worked their way into the organization will they censor men’s voices and dominate the agenda?”To be honest that was my first thought.It was an ”Uh Oh, what’s this?” moment, and I tried to do two things thereafter.
Because men’s voices are “so censored” in mainstream conversation? The entire dialogue in modern civilisation that is “important” is entirely in the hands of men. So while Loose Women may be on telly mocking us, we still make up the bulk of Question Time. The argument isn’t “fair”. I am sure women in MRA groups worked their way there by literally having to throw women under a bus.
First off to try and put myself back some years – to when I was figuratively speaking dripping blood from raw gaping wounds inflicted upon me by feminists and their white knight enablers, because I know that’s where many men are at despite the best efforts of a growing Men’s Human Rights Movement. In that sense I tried to put myself in the shoes of the guy freshly ripped a new one by the ‘femily caught’, or the guy in prison for an uncorroborated ‘sex crime’.
Oh come on… Fine! I will take it seriously. The way I see it there are two groups of people who have been “done wrong” in this argument. And both are “stupid and bad”. MRAs and the Man Haters. Both perceive that they have been been wronged and so take it out on everyone of another gender. The man hating feminist does exist, but they aren’t feminists so much as “a weirdo position”. Just like “racists” are one. You cannot look at them and then say, you know what? Feminism is crazy? Away to the Kitchen and make me a sarnie. Same thing with MRAs. I argue for more men in nursing. I want more men to learn gynaecology and stop it being a girl’s only club just as much as I want surgery to stop being a boy’s club. As for “the guy in prison for uncorroborated sex crimes”.
You do realise it’s a myth. Unless there is evidence of coitus and defensive injuries it is ridiculously hard to get a rape conviction because our system relies on evidence of guilt. We don’t function by hearsay and gossip. You cannot simply go and accuse someone of “rape” and then have that person jailed without an evidence based TRIAL. And the procedure for such is quite demeaning to the rape victim? In India? The cops bring the victim to a doctor and you lay out paper on the floor, strip the victim nude and examine them with a nurse (and a copper) in the same room. Any evidence falls on the paper and is collected. You do vaginal smears and lugol iodine (VILI). However that requires a relatively fast grab on any rapist and victim. I mean the victim has to stumble into the police station immediately. The better our resources at handling and destigmatising rape the faster we get aid to such women (and men) and the more we put away rapists. Though? I bet if we actually did this there would be a lot more “innocent” men on MRA sites claiming they were stitched up. As of now? Admission of being raped is NOT fun. I do wish that AVfM’s Senior Editor (the female one) grasped that concept. Admission of rape isn’t a gravy train.
Or the guys jailed for having been laid off as construction companies dried up and they were subsequently unable to pay child support.
And that has what to do with “feminism”? That has to do with legality. Right… Shennanigans. I call shennanigans. AVfM has not done the research here. Loss of a job is a valid reason for modification of Child Support. Unemployment and Changes in Income are EXPLICITLY stated as reasons for modification of child support. In order to actually fall down this trap you would have to lie about not losing your job. It’s a simple phone call. Even cross state borders in the USA there is a mechanism for reducing your child support payments if you are undergoing hardship.
I tried to empathize with the young guys on campus being forced to swallow PC feminist ‘rape awareness’ bullshit, with draconian speech codes and humiliating walk a mile in her shoes nonsense, or else risk getting their grades from feminist gatekeepers slashed and burnt.
It’s been a while since I was back home but Rape Awareness is simple. DO NOT FUCKING RAPE ANYONE. ASK FOR PERMISSION. IF YOU ARE TOO DRUNK TO BUY A CAR, THEN YOU ARE TOO DRUNK TO GIVE PERMISSION. AND SO ARE THEY. Now permission can be implied but if you cannot understand basic implied communication then FUCKING BE EXPLICIT. We aren’t dating victorian ladies whose mercury and lead based make up, poor diet and whalebone corsets have left them so weak that the mere question of sex will cause them to faint. It’s not perfect but “JUST ASK”. The clothes they wear mean absolutely fuck nothing. Just because a man wears a tuxedo doesn’t mean you can steal his wallet because he was “rich” or “possibly a philanthropist”. Draconian Speech Codes? Mate, you would ask if you wanted to borrow my shirt or even take a sip of my drink or a bite from my sandwich. How is it draconian to expect the same level of permission with regards to sex? And by saying “walk a mile in her shoes” it doesn’t mean strap on some mules and go for a stroll. It means “THINK HOW SHE DOES”. If you don’t, then you don’t risk getting your grades slash and burned, you risk raping someone and going the fuck to jail.
I thought of the boys, the latest of a million generations of young males hardwired to run, jump, throw, yell, spit, haze, wrestle and take risks being scolded for being themselves by dumb educational matriarchs who don’t understand male nature and want to squash male students humanity into unnatural conformist sit-still and chat feminine type docility.
Girls want to do that too. It’s just that we never let them. And unfortunately wrestling gets people hurt and starts “fights”. So no. Teaching our young men to NOT get into fist fights is important. Every martial art out there and self defence system teaches responsibility in combat. You are told to avoid fighting. You are told to distract, evade and defend rather than attack. Yes there are some ridiculously aggressive martial arts out there but they are for use in specific circumstances. If we all thought like the author we would raise a generation of thugs. While it’s fun to watch a bunch of kids wrestling and playing in the mud rather than the notion of a sterile padded room you have to realise RESPONSIBILITY. Outside your purview the people responsible for your children are not going to take risks getting sued. Which is why whenever a school does something vaguely risky (like cooking or adventure holiday stuff) they contact parents to sign release forms absolving the school of damages and responsibility for any “normal” or “unforseen injuries”. So the school cannot be responsible for a cooking class where Jimmy burns his hand if you have signed the waiver.
Otherwise schools can lose millions and people can lose jobs. It’s just plain sensible to not faff around with such things. However? In your own house you can have them rolling around screaming if you like. You are responsible and if you think it’s good that all your boys need to learn to roll around punching each other then GO FOR IT. Just remember, you are responsible for the result.
It’s why we have referees when we play rugby. Because without a referee, full contact rugby will turn into “Mud Punching” and “Broken Teeth Pickup”. Imagine that with a teacher and children who have poor impulse control?
I thought of the fathers, millions of them in pain, waiting, waiting, waiting and knowing that with each passing heartbeat another moment was lost with their dear children who they ache to be close to again to end the dark nights of alienation.
Except there is custody arrangements and most people get custody on weekends or every other weekend. And every person is different. And if it is so much then you can contact the people in charge of custody and arrange better hours. And yes while men should be getting custody more, the unfortunate problem with MRAs is that they wouldn’t do anything to help those men. Nothing concrete. It’s very hard to get anything concrete done when your response to increased female custody victories being “Feminist Conspiracy” rather than the entrenched notion that women are better caregivers and that men are incapable of being good single parents.
Hell, MRAs such as Stephen O’Brian themselves believe in the innate differences between men and women also including things such as personality. How can you on one paragraph claim that boys are all mud rolling fight monsters while girls are all dainty tea party holding conversationalists and then expect the same stereotypes to not hold true with age?
Anger was beginning to build in me. Old familiar cold hard anger.
Dark Sider eh?
I was thinking “fucking hell, now A voice for Men is turning into another organization where a woman is SENIOR Editor and has the power to edit men’s voices at the time men desperately need their voices to be heard! Again women get to be gatekeepers of men’s experience, filtering it through a consciousness that ISN’T and can never be the result of what men experience because people treat men differently than they treat women. Shit!”
Another organisation? Let’s just look at the New York Times. In the Department Heads section there are just TWO women out of 15 employees. There should be at least 7 to 8. The management section has 2 too (Treasurer and Secretary).
And men make up the mainstream experience. The status quo experience is White, Male and Straight. Men aren’t treated differently from Women. Women are treated differently from men. It sounds like semantics but there is a difference. In the same way that suggesting that white people are treated differently from black people suggests that black people are the status quo.
But there was some self-challenging going on too:“Hang about Stephen, do you recall any of the existing female staffers at AVFM writing or saying something misandric? Answer = No. Check.
No they have not. They however have been awfully silent about AVfM when it’s done stupid things. In order for these women to consistently back AVfM they have to accept that somehow the world is dominated by women and frankly that requires women to be thrown under a bus.
For fuck’s sake. AVfM has thrown women under a bus. A simple google check would have helped you realise that this article is “epic grade bullshit”. The “reality” here is that if indeed AVfM has a “Senior Editor” then that person didn’t even bother to fucking check the stuff that this author wrote. Particularly in lieu of the time period (the Delhi Rape victim’s death and the Indian Rape Protests/Riots). The gender of the editor doesn’t mean anything. Whoever greenlighted this piece dropped the fucking hammer on Indian women by giving a voice to the people who oppress women. It muddied the waters and poisoned the well. While women were struggling to demand the basic right to be safe in public areas it whined about giving women segregated seats to stop men from touching them up (And let’s face it, it wasn’t women touching women up in buses, it was men).
For fuck’s sake, a woman was sodomised to death in a place where just one case out of five hundred got a conviction for rape and your “appropriate” response to that was “Well? Men Have It Bad Because We Have to Queue In Separate Lines and Pay More For Nightclubs”.
That my friend is terri-fucking-ble. And if you are part of this site and failed to speak out on such a statement then you are complicit. If PZ, Ian, Jen, Paul or someone else said something bad I would criticise it. I have criticised other people’s views. (Real criticism. Yelling Prostitutive Perjorative/Fruit/Sex Crime at them is not criticism. It’s swearing randomly).
The fact of the matter is, AVfM’s female contingent probably have no ability to criticise this lest they be “Pineapples too” and have to “go home”.
Do you recall them occasionally letting themselves be humbled, corrected by men when they made some naïve assumption about a man or men’s experience and got challenged to think about it again? Answer = Yes. Check.Are they spreading word to the world at large about the extent of misandry? Answer = Yes. Check.Will they keep doing so? Answer = I don’t know. In my experience women can be terribly fickle.
Because people can change their minds about things. It’s called “learning” and “expanding your horizons”.
And that’s where I was stuck for a few hours, too busy with work activities to think it through to any conclusion.Then I went home, had a glass of wine and with thinking time available scratched my head and pondered.And it dawned on me. I’ve been putting myself in MEN’S shoes, which is good. But, what happens if I put myself in WOMEN’S shoes instead?
In my experience the heel breaks because they forgot the dictim of “Strong enough for a man but made for a woman”.
No. No. No. Not feminist women’s shoes, but grounded in reality type women’s shoes.
Which means women who didn’t say a single word about a culture where women live in fear of sexual harassment, are routinely killed for their gender and often cannot even speak when people from that culture stated that women have it easy.
And then, Bang! A beautiful paradigm shift occurred and with wine aiding the process I felt warm and cozy inside again. For I realized that in their own way women need the Men’s Human Rights Movement as much or in some cases perhaps even more than men need it. And I’d missed that because I’m so highly attuned to empathizing with men. I make no apologies for that. I’ve been a counselor for men in days gone by, and I realize I’ve simply grown that way over decades of draconian feminist hegemony for my own safety’s sake. I’m actually proud of that ability.And the realization grew:
Draconian Feminist Hegemony… Is it too late to change The Hags of Lag to the Draconian Feminist Hegemony? Because that sounds most rad.
Switched on women understand they need the Men’s Human Rights Movement desperately to avoid –
- The further growth of institutionalized fatherlessness and hence of under-parented feral youth with the potential to create a level of incivility and a violent crime epidemic like nothing we’ve ever witnessed to date;
And how would you manage to do that? Get women to stay with men they don’t fancy? And please… this ties into the notion that you need two parents to functionally train a child to be a decent human being. And there are plenty of “feral” youth who have both parents and intact marriages.
And scaremongering the youth? Nice!
- Paying more in terms of stress in a sea of incivility, and more taxes also for the housing of even more feminist-law-produced prisoners. The USA alone already has the largest prison population the world has ever known;
Actually that has to do with the way the judicial system punishes crimes (3 Strikes and Drugs). It has fuck all to do with “feminism” and a lot to do with “Right Wing Over-reactions”.
- Alienation from half the world’s population;
Except feminism doesn’t mean “no men”. It means “no sexists”.
- Being unwittingly lumped in with genuine female misandric bigots exposed by an increasingly powerful communication system which is outing feminists at the tap of a touchscreen – from anywhere to anywhere, instantly, 24/7/365.
And by outing do you mean screaming cunt and bitch at them until they stop arguing?
And so that women themselves can gain as -
- Little by little smart aware men can start to trust women again and grow closer to them rather than rationally and exponentially shunning them as untrustworthy and unsafe to be around, which hugely impoverishes women’s lives culturally and emotionally, not just financially – because of a quickening internet-spread MGTOW movement;
From what I have seen the biggest people hurt by MGTOW are “men”. It basically consists of Men going “FUCK BITCHES! GOING GALT!” and then sitting about whinging about why no sane person wants them.
- Less men shun mating with women thereby allowing women the fulfillment of becoming mothers. Bear in mind the non-hormonal birth control pill is just around the corner, indeed already to market in Indonesia, so the potential for men to close down reproduction on current misandric terms is close and on a huge scale;
I think women can have the fulfillment of becoming mothers without fucking misogynists. And I don’t think Stephen understands but a lot of men WANT children.
- Their world improves dramatically as things move from the negative side of the ledger to the positive side. Human rights for males will bring improved male longevity and male motivation to be socially involved rather than resentfully and consciously indolent and withdrawn. Thus a return to increased male inventiveness and a quantum leap in everyone’s life quality we can but only hazard a guess at.
Male longevity is linked to the diseases that affect men being harder to treat in emergencies and being more lethal immediately. Thyroid conditions can kill but telegraph their advance over months and years unlike heart attacks. Male longevity is reduced due to the fact that we are prone to diseases that cause rapid death. Things like stroke, pulmonary oedema/hypertension and heart attacks. Male longevity is unfortunately linked to testosterone… And that is the hormone that defines us as male.
What he has is a pipe dream of healthcare.
I don’t claim this little list is anywhere near exhaustive. Readers can add their own details to these broad brush strokes and perhaps a few broad brush strokes of their own as well.For now I’m off for another glass of wine to celebrate and to bask in a sense of relief.I made it thus far, and I trust smart women if for no other motive than their self-interest, will help me and my brothers make it further.After all they need us like a fish needs water.
This is a plain fantasy. Women need men.
They just don’t need MRAs.