I was working on a response to a mailed in article from AVfM when I saw this catch my eye.
And here is the thing. People LOVE to think feminism is about objectifying men. It’s not. AVfM has fallen down (yet again) into the trap of thinking that women somehow demand massive wangs because of feminism. Kristina Hansen has straight got it wrong on a lot of bits but she starts off strong.
Is bigger always better when it comes to the size of a man’s penis?
No. No it’s not. There is a finite size to a woman’s vagina. Above a certain “size” of penis it pretty much makes no difference and the vast majority of men lie within those parameters.
Medically speaking the average penis length depending on ethnicity is around 5.1 inches. The “Self Report” penis length studies are flawed because of a cultural notion linking penis size to virility that probably has it’s roots in human culture since the dawn of history. It’s kind of like “height” on a dating website. Most men over-report their height because it’s linked to attractiveness.
Oh there is a massive cultural problem to this phallusy too. Black men have to live up to the idea that they all hung like donkeys and Asian men are often insulted with the “Small Dick” sobriquet. So much so that there are specific psychiatric issues often found in asian men (I shall discuss it later).
Many think so, in fact society has taught us that the bigger something is that men own, means that they are somehow more of a man. That the more a man has, the more worth he has as a human being. Bigger cars, houses, boats, more women, money, toys, etc… Giving a man higher status and thus increased worth to society. This is also the case when it comes to the size of a man’s penis, or so we are told.
Only rappers think like that.
The problem we have is our sudden influx of internet pornography where women are judged by how they fit into a stereotype of either “super skinny” or “super curvy”. And men are judged by how many inches they have. (Particularly Black Men whose entire worth has been boiled down to Big Black Cock rather than human being).
Yes there are some modern porn that’s breaking down assumptions and changing and indeed providing women with porn where the individuals are “normal bodied” but we still live in a plastic surgeon’s porno paradise.
If you do think like this then please stop. I know many of my readers will say “But Avi, aren’t you rich and therefore in the big car/house/boat and so more money, toys and women category”. Aren’t you therefore high status?
I have never owned a car. Not even a beat up hand me down. When I asked for one my parents said “You can drive when you have a job” (It’s true. My peers drive to work. I have to walk 3 miles and take a train, a bus and one of these.)
And even yesterday I was discussing with Tigasuku (my girlfriend – her blog’s on the left) about whether or not she wants to sign the UK’s international trauma register with me as a doctor willing to travel across the globe and respond to emergencies for charity. I don’t think I will ever be “lofty and rich” and I don’t think I am super attractive or powerful or what have you. I think Tigasuku likes me because I am funny and that’s pretty much all I know that’s going for me really. But that’s the thing. It’s my personality that counted with her.
Society may value these things but people do not. And people make up the society. In fact the VAST majority of people probably do not consider these things as important so much as who you are is important. The vast majority of people who have these things are in relationships with individuals who don’t care whether or not they have these status symbols.
Society may value that, but society also values the witty, the erudite, the intelligent and the confident. In fact society values a lot of things. I have never heard any of my male friends being dumped due to a lack of trouser snake size and at no point has any of my female friends said “I dumped him because he had a small dick”. It has always been “about other things” ranging from abuse to cheating to just mundane incompatibility.
Men are often ridiculed by women if their penis does not meet a certain length when erect. I’ve personally heard many women, on many occasions, discussing their ex-partners penises and making fun of how small, tiny, or thin they were. How fucking his pinky toe would have been more pleasurable, or how they literally laughed in the guy’s face when they saw it for the first time.
Ex-Partners being the operative word.
Unless you genuine broke up under good terms, chances are your ex-partners will not remember you fondly. Denigrating the ex has always been a time honoured method of spending time. Ex-Men are all small penised bastards and leave the toilet seat up. Ex-Women are all money hungry bitches who steal your soul.
You didn’t think that when you were dating them though.
These women enjoy shaming those men amongst others and cackling over hot cups of coffee in public coffee shops where anyone nearby can clearly hear what they are talking about. In fact, they enjoy knowing that others are hearing them and that the men they are shaming are not just confined to their table.
Double,double toil and trouble; Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
Really? Between all the people writing their novels and “doing work”, I didn’t think Cafes had space for women to denigrate men.
Okay let’s assume that in Kristina’s bizarre world (to be fair I have been away from western society for a long time. This could be happening as we speak but I wouldn’t know about it until I go back in May when I am surrounded by gaggles of women all screaming about their ex-boyfriend’s penises while I am trying to enjoy a cappuccino) women do this.
How does it harm you. How do women sitting around in coffee shops telling all and sundry about penis sizes of their exes harm you personally. Do you really think women are googling the names they hear in coffee shops to strike them off the phone directory of people they fuck?
I don’t know what the majority of my exs are up to at this given point and time. For all I know they could be running around telling people that I have a strange and unnatural obsession with camels. Yet it would not affect me in the SLIGHTEST because people aren’t going to judge every Avicenna they hear about by random overheard gossip at a coffee house/pub/nightclub.
Shaming doesn’t work if you NEVER hear about it. It’s just idle conversation.
It sounds disgusting doesn’t it? Well it is.
Only if you think people make decisions on who they date based on idle tavern gossip. Frankly the only place where people make decisions on idle tavern gossip is in Dungeons and Dragons.
The message that a man’s penis somehow defines his worth has been beaten into us for so long that even parents of infant boys usually check the penis after he is born to make sure it looks proportional to his overall size. Making sure little Timmy’s penis is big enough is almost as important as making sure he has all ten fingers and toes, if not more important. In fact, Google “son has small penis” and you’ll see just how concerned (obsessed) parents, mostly mothers, are about the size of their son’s penises. And not just parents of infants, but parents of older children too. Well up into their teens for some of them.
And this is what we tell them.
You cannot tell the size of a man’s penis when it is not erect. The flaccid size has fuck all to do with it’s erect size and even shape. And I am pretty sure if your son has an erect penis around you while you measure the damn thing there are more pressing matters than mere “length”.
I have an obs/gyn in my family. A quick check says that she has had that question just 5 times in her entire 40 year career as a doctor. And 4 of those times the question was valid as the child was born with a genetic disorder (Klinefelter’s). Just 1 person asked it and was corrected. My aunt has probably delivered thousands of children.
If we were to use the internet and it’s collection of often stupid questions then “How is Babby Formed?” is a very common question in obs/gynae.
This is just an example of how society has led us to believe that a small penis means a man is somehow worth less. Of course this can, and sadly often does, lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy when a man buys into this kind of bullshit and places the bulk of his worth on the size of his penis. More so if his parents make an issue of it as he is growing up. Not only does making an issue of it tell that boy that his parents place enormous value on something he has no control over, but that it is something to be utterly ashamed of and it needs to be hidden or fixed.
Okay. Yes I agree with this. There is nothing much wrong with this paragraph. But what differs here is why we think this ridiculous concept exists.
Historically virility has been associated with big penises. As it has been with big breasts. Except we don’t have any negative connotations with big penises while a lot of women with big breasts do feel bullied for them while younger. This may be due to the fact that breasts are a lot more visible than penises and indeed having a large erection in class would get you just as bullied.
However we also know that men have made as much an issue about this as “women”. Considering the sheer domination by men in society it’s not a big leap to say that the majority of the flak aimed at small penises was created by men.
According to news sources, an Indonesian woman recently drowned her nine-year-old son in the bath because she was worried that his “small penis” would affect his opportunities as a man in the future.
I know about this case. Remember I mentioned that black and asian men in particular have two stereotypes with regards to penis size? Well we are familiar with the whole “animalising” of black people. Early black porn did not portray black people as civilised or even human, often opting for “caveman”/”barely tamed animal” kinds of themes. Lets just say that “it’s kind of racist”.
Well? The whole “Asians” have small penises manifest itself as a disease called Koro and it’s incidence is rising particularly due to the rise of internet pornography where europeans and africans are generally portrayed as possessors of massive penises. You literally have to sit down and explain to people that they are viewing outliers and that penis size isn’t very important when it comes down to sexual pleasure for a woman. Motion of the Ocean counts more.
The 38-year-old woman from Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia, told the police that her son “already had a small penis prior to his being circumcised, but that it appeared to ‘shrink further’ after the operation.”She told police investigators that she killed him because she determined “he would have a bleak future with his small penis.”Police said the woman was “fully conscious of what she had done”, but police ordered a psychological test to “assess her mental condition.”
Koro by proxy has been noted.
Is this woman suffering from a mental illness which led her to believe that the size of her son’s penis size would have affected his future so horribly that her only recourse was to murder him? Or is she just someone who completely bought into the bullshit that a man’s penis is the determining factor of his manhood? Of his worth as a human being? I tend to think it was the latter and not the former.
Yes. It’s a mental illness. A well known one where the individual believes their penis is shrinking and/or being “stolen”. It’s a kind of hysterical delusion that has a wide variety of literature. The most famous of which we know off is the “Witches Stole My Penis” outbreak in Africa. I know it sounds ridiculous to us but “A Vanishing Penis” is a known psychiatric issue linked to body dysmorphic disorders and sometimes to the deposition of suprapubic fat.
It’s also seen in individuals who don’t have large flaccid penises and who often need to be told that flaccid penis length means “precisely nothing”.
Yet here we see Kristina espouse with great details her opinion on the mental state of a woman. Based on what? Clearly not a grasp of psychiatry.
A delusional person is one who believes in something patently and easily disproved with such vigour that they subvert any proof against them to support their delusion. So if you believed your old neighbour was out to kill you and I said “No She Is Not” and provided proof that your neighbour was indeed dead and so couldn’t be out to kill you then a delusional person would not go “That’s Right! Silly me!” but go “Avicenna is in cahoots with my neighbour who faked her death in order to kill me”. There are a variety of delusions ranging from persecution to grandeur but at their core they are all about a belief that can be easily disproved but is still held by the patient.
A mother who has a delusion as such would genuinely believe that her son’s penis length has everything to do with success and that he couldn’t achieve anything with a circumcised penis hence killing him out of mercy. She could still be delusional and be charged with murder though since the delusion itself has nothing to do with her individual safety. When considering a delusional person for a crime your role as a doctor is to indicate (at least in India) whether a person’s delusion pertains to the crime or not. A delusional person can hold a legal license to operate a car because their delusion doesn’t pertain to road rules. A person who believes delusionally that his life is under threat from another and kills that person is not guilty by virtue of insanity since if the delusion were real then self defence is an acceptable reason to kill someone.. A person who believes that their son has a shrinking penis and kills him to spare him the inglorious denigration of such cannot use an insane plea bargain because the belief has nothing to do with the legality of the action since killing someone because they will be unsuccessful in life is still murder.
So in this case the woman would be considered sane for the purposes of the trial despite suffering from Koro by proxy since her delusion doesn’t pertain to the legality of her actions and she herself admits it since she confessed to the police as guilty.
That’s where we draw the line. Both me and Kristina start off by sort of agreeing but it is here we wildly diverge.
When society places so much worth on the size of a man’s penis it’s a wonder that more male children are not being inspected daily and then discarded like trash if they fail to measure up.
Kristina is unfortunately a MRA and is therefore fortunately quite wrong here.
Society may place worth on the size of a man’s penis but society places more worth on the possession of a penis than the possession of a vagina. You are more likely to be discarded like trash if you have a vagina than a penis. To portray this bizarre notion that a single case in Indonesia is how men are treated across the world is to completely ignore the millions of female babies and foetuses terminated across India and China solely for the reason that they are girls. Female infanticide is a real fucking problem across large parts of the world including Indonesia.
In India alone the toll is estimated at 50 million over the past 20 years. Assuming China’s problem is as big as India’s you would have a grand total of 100 million girls aborted or murdered. Worldwide you are more likely to be aborted or killed if you are a woman than if you are a man irrespective of your penis length or girth. To say it’s a wonder more male children aren’t thrown away because their flaccid penis size doesn’t match up to reality where female children are killed or discarded to die because of their genitalia.
The truth is that the size of a man’s penis has nothing to do with his worth as a human being. But if we are raising our sons to believe in the bullshit that size is the determining factor of what their worth is, then we are creating a society that does not value men as individuals, but as walking penises. As being no more than a few inches of worth to the world.
When you do that, who is it that truly loses their worth as human beings?
Except society doesn’t value men as walking penises but does value women as walking uteruses. Even MRAs are guilty of it. AVfM has female staff who would shy away from the more radical but we have all read stuff by the various pick up artists and the others where they do consider women to be nothing but a vagina.
Women don’t value men as walking penises. A few do but the vast majority of women are actually interested in other things than “penis size”.
To produce an article like this taking an outlier case of a delusional woman and imply it’s some sort of norm of a society that’s geared to mock and emasculate men is daft. We are more likely globally (and Kristina is taking the global perspective on this rather than a localised perspective…) to kill a woman for being a woman than we are to kill a man for having a small penis.
Yes. Belittling men for not measuring up to some mythical standard is bad. Yes, society could do with a lower emphasis about something as pointless as penis size. But this isn’t something engineered by women or feminists. but by society that has been primarily dominated by men. The fascination with penis size predates civilisation and has been seen even on cave paintings where virility is associated with penis size. In fact grecian culture would be the outlier as it didn’t place an emphasis on penis size and in fact considered a “smaller” penis to be a sign of civility.
But this is something society has to work on as a whole and won’t be improved by portraying women as the sole culprit or as cackling hags over their coffee mocking ex-conquests in their quest for new penis. This isn’t because sex is enjoyable and women now are more sexually active than before. The denigration of men with small penises isn’t due to freudian penis envy or the sexual liberation of women or whatever it is MRAs think is the conspiracy du jour.
And yes body dysmorphism is a problem amongst men (particularly young ones) but it is also a problem amongst women and falls under the same category of problems. For all the article’s whinging about men being denigrated and even killed for having a small dick it ignores the very worse treatment of women who often are killed for their genitals or are denigrated if they fail to attain some standard of attractiveness.
And yes, modern men have started feeling the similar sting of photoshopped models with thin angular faces, broad shoulders and thing waists, perfect skin and clear eyes being the norm of attractive and are being forced to fit into those moulds resulting in rising trends of anorexia and bulemia but these are mainly seen in women. These are body dysmorphisms and “small penis fears” are part of these myriad of conditions caused by us idealising a body-type. I have to repeat this over and over again but it’s not a massive conspiracy.
And you can see the difference here between MRAs and us. Kristina’s entire writing portrays women as the sole offenders. I would point out that both are equally to blame and considering male dominance in society the onus on the change is in the hands of men really. We can do something about this if we all stopped using “small penis” as an insult.
This is actually so old as a cultural issue that I don’t think either gender is to blame more than the other and is something both sides need to change as a whole.