Be Prepared || When Maps Flap, and Knots Fray; Just Remember Scout, “At Least You aren’t Gay”

If you haven’t already heard, various Christian groups are out in force about the Boy Scouts of America trying to be decent (finally) and recognise homosexuals as members.

Amongst the Pearl Clutchers we have the Baptist Press who write news with a Christian perspective.

If by Christian you mean “Raging Homophobes”.

         IRVING, Texas (BP) — The Boy Scouts of America is seriously considering lifting its ban on gay and lesbian troop leaders and could make the change official the first few days of February, a move that likely will disappoint Southern Baptist churches and many faith-based organizations that comprise a majority of all sponsors.

Well just 40 years ago going to a dance with me would have disappointed a lot of Southern Baptist Churches. Why should we care?

          About 70 percent of all Boy Scout units are chartered by faith-based organizations, and the Boy Scouts national organization just six months ago reaffirmed its policy on homosexual leaders following a two-year review.

Oh! Right! Well I can see where that’s going.

Question? If 70% of your income is from a single group of people who are bigotted against a particular other group of people then what could possibly make you take a stand against the 70%? It could be that the Scouts themselves may have just grown a spine as decent human beings.

         But now the national organization appears poised to change its policy under pressure from some local troops and corporations.

Because these local troops have gay members, and the scouts have always harped on about equality. At this point the scouts in the USA are not living up to treating people as equal because they are outright banning the hiring of homosexuals or indeed allowing members to be homosexual. Making them one of the LEAST tolerable employers in the USA. They are changing their shorts because

1. Not All Christians are Homophobes and Many Want Gay People to Be Treated As Equals

2. Because They Do Have A Little Bit of Human Decency About Them

Boy Scouts spokesman Deron Smith told in a prepared statement that the new policy would mean “there would no longer be any national policy regarding sexual orientation” and the decision on a policy would be up to each sponsoring organization. A final decision could be made at the Boy Scouts board meeting next week. In July, Bob Mazzuca, then the chief Scout executive of the Boy Scouts, said a “majority of our membership agrees with the policy” and that the “vast majority of the parents of youth we serve value their rights to address issues of same-sex orientation within their family, with spiritual advisers, and at the appropriate time and in the right setting.” That stance was applauded at the time by troop leaders who are Baptists but it now appears in serious danger.

Because Bob Mazzuca probably opened his big stupid mouth and inserted his big stupid intolerant foot into it.

And parents and long term scouts who heard about it began to criticise his stance for the hypocrisy of claiming inclusiveness while excluding people and children who are often struggling against real life bullying from an organisation that was meant to teach team work, fair play and self reliance.

In addition many high ranking scouts gave up their titles in protest, meaning that people were genuinely struggling with receiving recognition from homophobes.

And if you applaud a system used to force people to pretend to be something that they are not then you are a bigot.

         Fred Luter, president of the Southern Baptist Convention, expressed disappointment in a potential change. He was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout as a boy, he said. “If that is what the leadership is doing, then I think it will be a sad day in the life of the Boy Scouts of America,” Luter told Baptist Press. “This is a tradition that so many of us across the country grew up in. We were in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts in elementary school, and this organization has always stood for biblical principles — all the things that grounded our lives as a young kid growing up. To now see this organization that I thought stood on biblical principles about to give in to the politically correct thing is very disappointing.”

Good Olde Segregation. The LAST segregated troop in the USA was dissolved in 1974. Segregation and ostracisation of black scouts was extremely common during the founding of the Scouts. They often were not taught the same things, they often were not allowed to wear the uniforms or even talk to the white kids. In parts of the South they were straight up BANNED until people forced the scouts to change their attitudes.

It too was tradition. Stupid, Harmful and Bigotted Tradition Must Stop.

And I am glad that the Scouts in the UK may have started as an organisation as drenched in bigotry as the american one but grew past that to the inclusive version I grew up with. If the Scouts in the USA are based on biblical principles then it certainly explains why they have such a terrible intake of Indians in the USA.

          Luter also said he believes the Boy Scouts will “lose a whole lot of our support,” with Southern Baptist churches choosing instead not to sponsor a unit.

Yeah, that just makes you a homophobe and a wanker. It literally is a statement that “We refuse to let the people whose lifestyles we disapprove of from enjoying stuff we claim is universal”.

If we ran a scouting association we would not ban the children of Southern Baptists for who or what they are.

          “A lot of them will just pull out,” Luter said. “This is just something we don’t believe in. It’s unfortunate the Boy Scouts are making this decision.”

People said that about the Scouts in the 60s when they started de-segregating and started treating black kids equally well.

If the homophobes leave the scouts who do you think it benefits?

         The Boy Scouts have lost at least three corporate sponsors in recent months: UPS, Intel and the Merck Foundation. All cited the Scouts’ policy on homosexual leaders in their decisions. The U.S. Supreme Court upheld the Boy Scouts’ policy in a landmark decision in 2000. The court was split 5-4 and, since then, actually has become more conservative, with a conservative justice (Samuel Alito) replacing a moderate (Sandra Day O’Connor) who voted with the 2000 majority.

 Yes, I mean you hire gay people. There are gay package delivery workers, gay computer workers and gay medics. Why on earth would you sponsor a institution of bigotry against people you hire.

         The Boy Scouts have a rich history of support from churches. The Scout Oath includes the sentence, “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country.”

Which is an outright fucking lie.

The Scout Oath has a option of invoking a god. Baden Powell was the founder of the scouts. The oath you read as a scout is his and the ORIGINAL had God and King. When the scouts took off around the world he rewrote the line to be more inclusive. No seriously, the Scout Oath is secular.

You can take the oath with references to God and King or God and Country. In addition you can replace “God” with A Higher Power, Ideal or Truth. While the scouts have repeatedly bitched about the lack of god in the oath you DO NOT HAVE TO REFER TO A GOD. Many scouts like the Czech and French do not call upon a god unless they WISH to when they recite the oath.

Lord Powell himself wrote the damn oath without a god (the so called Outlander Oath) thus making the American version pretty stupid and draconian since the “god” referred to is universal and allows for non-christian scouts too.

         “I have long lauded the Scouts for their courage in standing on principle,” Page said. “This action reverses the findings of a two-year study last July that affirmed their principled stand on biblical morality. From what they told me, they are wilting under pressure from some of their corporate sponsors and the fear they could lose a future court case, despite the fact that they prevailed before the Supreme Court on this very issue. That may be the bigger story here.

I feel the american boy scouts if they do not accept homosexuals and treat them as equals should be struck from the internationally recognised scouts.

People said the same thing when the Scouts refused to allow black people into their ranks. Bigotry will lose Mr. Page.

And what principles? This is pretty much a spot on example of religion making you a bigot rather than a moral human being. Because you think what a person does in the bedroom with a consenting adult has any standing on what he does in real life. That you would rather ostracise and bully those who are different rather than learn to live and let live.

If you don’t like fucking men then don’t fuck men. It’s as simple as that. Gay people are not going to make your kids gay. Gay kids in scouts are not going to turn your young boys into young boys who like other boys. They are just going to feel more welcome and treated with respect. The same respect you expect your kids to be treated. I don’t want my kids to be harassed by racists and I am sure parents with gay children don’t want their kids harassed by a homophobe.

We are fighting for them to be treated as human beings. We are fighting for these kids to live in a world where adults don’t go around forcing them out of clubs and bullying them. And this man is supposedly a role model for kids in Southern Baptist homes. Which is why even if it costs many smaller troops who refuse to take on openly gay kids or scout leaders, it will create a world where we don’t discriminate.

New Scouts will be born out of the ashes of old troops that would rather dissolve than make the change. The only people being inconvenienced are the homophobes.

         “[Boy Scouts Chief Scout Executive] Wayne Brock visited with me last week, signaling the possibility they would consider this proposal at their February board meeting. He specifically asked the Southern Baptist Convention not to oppose this move. Of course, I refused to make this concession. “After consulting with the chairman of [the Executive Committee] board, our SBC president and a few others, I wrote a letter to the Scouts late last week strongly asking them to reconsider this decision.”

As I said. The ONLY people inconvenienced by such changes to the rules are bigots and homophobes. Do it. Cast out the villains in this set piece so we can get on with our fucking lives. If their god makes them dicks then you don’t need them nor their god.

The correct response to the Atlas Shrugged move is to tell them to hop it. You will go down as people who did the right thing rather than kowtow to bigots. And people will respect you for that, more than the bigots do. They have been using the fine tradition of scouting to flog their god and their bigotry.

It’s time to stop. Don’t ban homosexuals, ban the homophobes.

         R. Chip Turner, chairman of BSA Religious Relationships and past national president of the Association of Baptists for Scouting, said if the new policy is adopted “there will be profound disappointment among us as Southern Baptists as well as members of many other large faith-based users of the program.” But Turner cautioned churches against pulling out of the Boy Scouts. “This proposed policy does not lessen our obligation as Southern Baptists to be salt and light to the unreached children, youth and families of our nation,” Turner said. “Scouting has proven to be a tremendously effective tool to achieving this commitment. And, the new proposed policy in no way inhibits our ability to choose the persons we believe best fit our definition of godly leadership. I believe it is even more important now that we continue sowing, tending and harvesting in these fields under the leadership of committed Baptist Scout leaders.” 

And straight from the Horse’s Mouth.

This right here is the reason to shake up Boy Scouts of America. To them the tradition of scouting has never been about teaching self sufficiency, a love of the outdoors and skills that you normally wouldn’t have.

It was always about inserting Jesus into Children. If I were a parent I would loathe to send my children to a scouting association run by these bigots. Scouting should be secular. There should be no god invoked nor should we be biased against people (Unless they break the socially accepted taboo of bigotry).

I would loathe to send children to an institution that protects bigots who try to spread their way of bigotry and ignorance through that institution.

         The new policy could be implemented the same week that churches around the country celebrate “Scout Sunday.” Roger S. “Sing” Oldham, vice president for convention communications and relations with the SBC Executive Committee, said it is “distressing” that the Boy Scouts board “apparently intended to hide this from the public until the day after thousands of churches would have celebrated Scout Sunday.”

Not all Churches are Bigots. Not All Christians Are Bigots. I am betting that not all Southern Baptists are Bigots too.

Just the leadership who sprout such ill hate.

And the only reason they get away with it in the public sphere is due to the fact their bigotry is excused by religion.

         “Churches of all faiths and denominations, including Southern Baptist churches, will be forced to reevaluate whether they can, in good conscience, continue to host Scout troops given that the Scouts appear poised to turn their backs on this clear biblical and moral issue,” Oldham said. “If the Scouts adopt these changes, I anticipate the SBC Executive Committee will issue a statement at its February board meeting expressing its deep dismay at this decision of the Scouts. This move may result in a boost for the convention’s Royal Ambassador program as churches scramble for an alternative boys organization that remains grounded in a consistent, biblical worldview.”

Yes. Yes you can. It doesn’t cost you anything. It just makes you BETTER PEOPLE, because you have analysed the Bible and found it wanting. Just as you analysed the Bible and found it wanting when it came to SLAVERY and RACISM. Those bits are conveniently forgotten by “Gay Bashing” isn’t.

And we know why. Because if you flogged the old Southern Baptist Creed of racial segregation today you would be so irrelevant to the argument that other Christians would simply laugh you out of existence. You would haemorrhage members leaving you with a core of racists.

And that is what you fear will happen with the acceptance of homosexuals.


And urgh, I know of the Royal Ambassadors. Seriously? That’s your alternative? For those who are unaware they are Christian Fundie scout-like and a method of training up Missionaries to send to third world nations to insert Jesus into kids internationally (and who usually aren’t white) under the guise of charity. While anything that increases their membership would make me genuinely sad because the last thing the world needs is more missionaries.

And consider this, how often do these people try and insert Bibles into you or your children in a country with laws against that.

Now imagine how much they do that in countries where there are no laws to protect the people and no oversight.

Family Research Council President Tony Perkins also criticized the potential change. “The Boy Scouts of America board would be making a serious mistake to bow to the strong-arm tactics of LGBT activists and open the organization to homosexuality,” Perkins said. “What has changed in terms of the Boy Scouts’ concern for the well-being of the boys under their care? Or is this not about the well-being of the Scouts, but the funding for the organization?”

Really? The FRC? The LGBT make up just 5 to 7% of the USA. I don’t think 7% of anything is capable of strong arming the 93%. They just protest and are arguing for equal rights. They no more are strong arming you than black people “strong armed” your country for their freedom in the 60s and in South Africa in the 80s. They just want equal rights and the right to not get harassed by bigots such as Tony Perkins.

They are worried about the well being of boys under their care. They don’t want these young men to grow up to be bigots like those old dinosaurs (and I loathe to use such an awesome beast to describe such mundane and morally bankrupt people) of the Southern Baptist Church. They are taking a step in the RIGHT direction to teach children to treat others like decent human beings. And in doing so they have exposed a deeper disease within the american scouts.

More than maps

More than knots

More than walks

More than tents

More than sails

More than learning to fish

More than wild mushrooms

More than camp fires

More than constellations

More than wildlife

More than your knife

Over hill, dale, river and stream

Be your belief in god, gods or nothing at all

The most important thing you can learn young scouts;

is to treat your fellow man like you would treat yourself.


  1. PatrickG says

    Excellent rant. Something I don’t see pointed out (if I missed it, sorry) is that this is a national policy decision only, and that, in fact, the BSA is explicitly allowing local organizations (chapters, OA lodges, individual troops) to make the decision on whether to allow openly gay members:

    “The policy change under discussion would allow the religious, civic, or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue. The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents. Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs.”

    I highly doubt that any troops actually funded by and with adult leadership supplied by the SBC is going to to adopt this change. As you noted, the real concern is preventing any child anywhere from coming up against “dangerous” ideas. Also, their kids might run into Teh Ghey at National Jamborees, or something.

    Anyway, as a former Scout, while this change is welcome, I wish it had gone further. But that’s just me pining away. :)

  2. PatrickG says

    Agreed. I’m just struck by how this makes the caterwauling about this decision seem even more ludicrous, since groups like the Southern Baptists have express license to continue discriminating to their hearts’ content in local chapters.

  3. M, Supreme Anarch of the Queer Illuminati says

    You can take the oath with references to God and King or God and Country. In addition you can replace “God” with A Higher Power, Ideal or Truth. While the scouts have repeatedly bitched about the lack of god in the oath you DO NOT HAVE TO REFER TO A GOD.

    This actually isn’t the case in the U.S. The BSA will continue to exclude atheists (as well as anyone else who won’t swear to do their duty to a proper-noun, monotheist God) from participation at all levels even if they change their heterosexual-supremacist policy.

    Scouting worldwide has moved on and become somewhat progressive in many cases; the Boy Scouts of America, though, are consistently right-wing at the national level and generally conservative at all levels.

  4. jnorris says

    If Baptists, and I presume Catholic, churches drop out of Boy Scouts, liberal churches will see a rise in membership as progressive parents move their sons into modern troops. I would expect those parents to leave the bigoted churches or be thrown out. Declining church membership will have an effect on the SBC and RCC Inc.. They will reap what they sow.

    Unfortunately in smaller towns there may not be an alternative for progressive scouts. That should be a lesson for those boys about the adults in their lives and the values they are being brainwashed into at church.

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