There are always people who simply don’t get it. Whether they demand we specifically eliminate the people they know who don’t fit the sub-set or because they themselves cannot recognise a problem that’s endemic. Or worse are angry that their well established domination of society is being eroded.
It’s no secret now that India is not kind to it’s daughters. While some of it’s sons have rallied magnificently to help make a change some of them have been rather more recalcitrant. Some of them are unfortunately Men’s Rights Activists and indeed, A Voice for Men makes it clear that these “men” are welcome to spread their uniquely privileged world view upon the rest of us.
I was sorry for not thinking about “the men” earlier today, so I shall make amends…
So without further adieu here’s Anil Sharma’s take on the way women have it better in India than “the men”.
In response to PauI Elam’s request to hear from the men of India, I have the following to say. I am what you may call the average Indian male and I fall into the category that is the most hated, a young Indian male. Now, I cannot really provide you with statistics as I am no researcher, but I can provide you with accurate descriptions of misandry I have seen and experienced throughout the country. I have seen it happen countless times and have been subjected to official discrimination based on my sex as well.
No you are not. Anil Sharma is not the “Average Indian Male”. There are many reasons for this statement.
70% of India lives on under $2 a day. 93% on under $5. 1 in 3 Indians are below the poverty line and because of India’s population it has the largest population of people under poverty than any other country. The fifteen poorest countries in sub Saharan Africa have fewer poor people. There is a LOT of poverty.
Anil Sharma is basically upper middle class/upper class. He may not be “Scrooge McDuck” rich but he is “rich” enough to have luxuries out of the reach of most Indians unless they put some serious graft into saving up. Economically speaking in India he is the 1%.
The most loved group of people are the Young Indian Male. Anil is basically so blinded to the actual reality of India that it hurts me but then again he isn’t the first. I know of a young lady who insisted that healthcare in India was better than the UK and when I pointed out that 70% of Indians couldn’t access the healthcare she had she “didn’t care”. Many Indians are blinded to the way things are in the rural sector of their country. So let’s see what misandry exists in India and how it affects Anil….
In New Delhi, which is infamously called the Rape Capital, men are treated like beasts. Since the preconceived notion is that men are the perpetrators and a woman cannot lie about being troubled by a man, even the slightest hint of discomfort shown by a woman could mean doomsday for a man. The rapes that actually do happen are mostly at night when girls roam around unguarded in very bad neighborhoods, but the media portrays it as a crime that happens around the clock in every possible area. I do not know anybody who has known rape victims personally but I know many who knew murder, attempted murder and assault victims. Statistics would easily tell you that murder and assault are more common in New Delhi than rape, and that men are murdered and otherwise harmed much more frequently than women.No one is rioting on the streets about what is happening to men.
New Delhi reports around 600 rapes a year with around 5 convictions. However London (a similar sized city) reports close to 15,000 rapes a year. In fact India as a whole only records around 25,000 rapes a year while the UK reports 50,000. Does this mean that India is safer than the UK?
Every Single Guide Book to India, every single website dedicated to travel and nearly every woman who has been to India outside the realm of the super rich and the chartered tour have stated that travelling in India is best as a group or with men for safety and even then the women should expect to be molested, abused or stalked by men. Yet no such warning exists for the UK.
If we read the stories of sexual abuse, most women in India have a story about either abuse they faced or know off. They may even not realise something being done was abusive or dangerous. Many people consider “stalking” to be romantic. That unrequited love and demonstration of such will win hearts. Many women often encourage this sort of behaviour because “If a guy stops stalking it means her doesn’t want you”. This is because unlike the west where we do have a culture of dating, the equivalent in India was born out of movies and was created by people who themselves had little to no idea of how to behave on a date or around women.
By my rough estimation, if India had a similar incidence of rape as the UK it would have over a million cases (or 3 million assuming the UK’s report rate). However we know that in India the report rate is low because most women consider reporting a rape as shameful and bringing dishonour to families (mainly in the North though), many are scared of repercussions and many are raped within marriage which is “not a crime in India”. The incidence of rape is extremely high despite the low report rates.
I reported on “rapes” and threats that occurred in rich neighbourhoods too.
And note the language… when girls roam around bad neighbourhoods. Yes these women got raped because they were loitering around “areas where rapists like to congregate“. And I reported on rapes that occurred in bright daylight. (Clearly those rapists struck during an eclipse). Anil seems to be confusing rapists with vampires, an understandable mistake to make since Twilight is marketed to a more widespread audience in India than in the west. Glad to see there is a man here who thinks rape doesn’t occur during daylight or because women dared to step outside the purdah. Did you know KFC was blamed for rape? Not the men who rape or the culture of acceptable sexual assault?
Murder and assault are more common in India than rape because rape report rates are low and because many Indian policemen don’t accept reports on sexual harassment. And women are more susceptible to murder and assault too.
It is an attitude you see reflected in many other ways in Indian culture. Our buses have seats reserved for women; the front half. One row is reserved for senior citizens and one more row is reserved for handicapped travelers. Now, the rows reserved for senior citizens and handicapped travelers may or may not always exist. But every bus will have seats reserved for women. I stand up out of courtesy for middle-aged men and women. I believe that they deserve respect as they are an elder to me.
Yes women have seats reserved for them on buses.
But I have seen girls, young college girls, making old men sitting on seats reserved for women stand up so that they can have the seat. I come home after working for 10 hours in the office. I never get a seat in the bus. The back of the bus is always full and if the front half is empty, I can only sit there for a few minutes unless I am really lucky. As soon as a girl enters a bus, I am out. Due to sheer embarrassment and fear, men continue to stand even when the seats at the front are vacant. Due to this, buses are often very crowded at the back. Men never take the front seat unless they feel really lucky and all the seats at the back are full. A few air conditioned buses do not have reserved seats (I travel in these as far as possible).
In Tamil Nadu where I work the seats on the left side of the bus are reserved for women except for one which is the conductor’s side facing seat. The entire right side of the bus (which has more seats) is for open seating.
Wait? I thought the front of the bus was ridiculously empty? Yet when a girl walks in with a itty bitty waist and a round thing in your face you have to go stand in the back of the bus immediately?
But yes this is something that does occur, HOWEVER you can use these seats until a woman comes in or someone asks you to move, also these seats are available for men.
And here’s the gripe, the seat was reserved for women and an old man was sat there. Making him stand may have been a slighly wrong move, but here is the thing. Why aren’t any of the strong men giving up their seats for this old man?
And do you know why these seats were reserved? Two reasons. Women used to STAND in buses rather than sit because men would take the seats and because men would sit next to unaccompanied women to grope them. Plenty of female travellers unaware of the seating conventions often end up getting groped by men who sit next to them. These safe spaces ensure women can use public transport. And in many parts of India women end up standing too.
In Delhi metros, there is a coach reserved for women. This coach can remain empty but men cannot enter it. Apart from this, we are also constantly reminded (through announcements) to give our seats to ladies if they are standing. I would be willing to give my seat to an old woman or a pregnant lady. But young women? Healthy college girls?
Same as in Japan and indeed for the same reason.
Because of the grope culture and harassment culture that exists. We are familiar with Japanese Grope Culture and the attitudes there. Where society treats it as “harmless fun”, well India calls that Eve Teasing rather than “Sexual Harassment”.
As for healthy college girls? Indian women can be universally considered to be anaemic. Most Indian women never do sports beyond the very very mild. Many Indian women cannot believe that I have friends who have run marathons as women. They don’t think women can exercise. In many traditional families women eat last so they often have insufficient food because the men take the “lion’s share”. In addition in Hinduism women are expected to follow fasts… all of which take a toll on their strength.
So many college girls aren’t capable of doing what we do. The fact I can stand 3 to 5 hours as long as I have space to occasionally stretch my legs is seen as remarkable. Many women wouldn’t be able to stand an hour let alone two because of the underlying anaemia. Healthy College Girls? Don’t make me laugh, some of the people who I see are ridiculously rich and don’t even meet the basic criteria for “blood donation” let alone standing through Indian rush hour. Oh don’t worry, India is trying to counter this problem through supplementation of diet for women but frankly if Anil knew he would be demanding we do the same for all them men too!
There is more. I was recently standing in a very long queue to buy an interstate bus ticket. After waiting for more than an hour the queue had hardly moved. Why? A smaller queue had materialized next to our queue. A queue for women only. The tickets were being given to them first. A few women buy, they leave and then more women come, while the men wait. I got my ticket after 2 hours. It was 2am. I wanted to board the midnight bus.
Because men touch women in queues and any place where women cannot move away from men. And most women won’t complain because of the purdah system. Because being molested means they haven’t done enough to be invisible.
The segregated line is to allow women to participate in society till they don’t require a separate line any more. And this line issue is more due to the fact that India is big on bureaucracy so won’t bend the law (unless there is a bribe involved!) to allow men to use an empty women’s line to make a queue go faster. But the women’s queue exists so that women can actually participate in society rather than be terrified of the lines where they cannot move and escape their molester.
If you try to make people understand that even men can be raped, they don’t believe it. It took me some time to convince my friends, all of whom are well-educated. Imagine how difficult it is going to be to make the entire country believe that this crime exists. In India, it is assumed that no girl likes sex whereas sex is all that men can think about.
The majority of male rapists are other men.
The number of women who rape men are rare and indeed the major problem MRA’s have is rather than try to provide help for the male victims of rape, they instead poison the well for female rape victims. We have a similar example to being raped as a man which is being raped as someone who is Trans, but look at the work of Zinnia and Natalie on here, both campaign not for the reduction of rights of women but for the inclusion, expansion and improvement of rights for trans people. MRA’s if they were really interested in halting male rape would do this. They would campaign for open language on rape, a reduction of the stigma and getting men who were abused to come forwards rather than belittling women with some of the least freedom anywhere in the world. Yes, India needs to expand male rape laws (see! I did mean my apology yesterday! And you all thought I was sarcastic!) but it also needs to expand rape laws as a WHOLE.
Did you know India doesn’t think rape within marriage is possible? That even female judges have ruled that the act of marriage = consent for ever? In order to be accused of marital rape you and your wife must be separated for 7 years. That one of the most common forms of rape in the world isn’t considered as one. If your husband rapes you, you just carry on as it’s a fact of life.
The total number of rapes on women is higher than that on men. The majority of rapes are however carried out by men on both men and women.
Most of the discotheques in India are openly sexist. The entry fee structure is usually something like this:
Ladies – FREE/negligible
Couples – 1000 Rs., since you are getting a MAN (rapist, demon, molester) with you
Men – 1500 Rs., or NO ENTRY
The justification? The same as it is in the west. Girls attract crowds. Girls will attract men and men will pay. Okay, so sexism is a business decision. But many discotheques don’t even allow men unless they have women with them. Recently, I saw a man trying to go alone inside a discotheque. He was denied entry. So, he went out and asked a random girl to accompany him to the discotheque. Now get this. He was still denied permission because they had seen him before without a girl.
You remember I started explaining privilege right? About how Anil is in the 1% of India?
Well, per week in India I spend around Rs 800 outside of basic costs. I couldn’t afford to take my girlfriend (If Tiga were here) to a club on my dime. I would have to save up for a month by ignoring some luxuries to raise that Rs. 1000. To go on my own is effectively two weeks worth of money. I haven’t been to a club here outside of being invited by people for corporate events (Last year when I got to go to a December magazine launch party and they had a free bar!). Basically? Anil is effectively richer than me and I am in the top 10% if he can afford to “club”.
Oh and single men are priced higher because it makes money and because it keeps the “poor people” out because the notion is that they are more likely to molest women. Indian clubs aren’t as social a place as our bars. Also? Many Indian women don’t go to them so trying to attract them to produce the same kind of atmosphere as a western club is a big issue. From what I remember it was like being back at my first high school ball, where all us first years stood at the edges staring at the mysterious beasts that are girls (If you recall? I threw up on my date because I was so nervous… So imagine being at the actual event!) . It was that kind of vibe because clearly Indian women want to talk to men and men to women but one side sees the other as a piece of meat and the other side as a bunch of rapists.
Our Constitution is shit in written form. Check out this link:
According to our Constitution, nobody can be discriminated on the basis of gender. But, if you read the sections related to dowry, rape, other sexual offences, etc., you’ll see that our Constitution itself is hostilely misandrist. The “modesty of a woman” is a common phrase in our laws. It is not even clear what modesty of a woman really is but it roughly makes a woman’s body a treasure which every man wants to possess by force (Read Section 354 of the IPC for more information). In cases of adultery, only the man can be held guilty. There were efforts made to make this law gender-neutral. But take a look at the following article which provides 1. the justification for having such a biased law and 2. the reason why it was proposed to scrap the law (it’s not because it’s against men).
Actually those are parts of the law based on British Common Law…
Section 354 is “outrage of modesty of women” which is a highly nebulous law that doesn’t protect any women from sexual harassment due to it’s universality. What? Does Anil think there is a plot by the Lonely Planet or Footprints to portray India as a rapetastic place? Fuck no. It’s because this law isn’t enforced properly.
Adultery is an offence but it’s being changed from one to a civil issue. It’s something to fight but to hold it as “SEE THE MENZ HAVE IT WORSTEST” is just plain stupid.
In general, men are considered evil everywhere in the country. Videotapes of women beating men are showcased here and any acts of violence against women (even if its self-defense) are condemned. You already have a lot of videos on your blog. When the Delhi girl was raped, newspapers, magazine articles and Facebook walls were flooded with brutal remarks calling for barbaric punishments like public beating and castration. The physical violence involved in the crime against the man was completely overlooked. Nobody was concerned about the girl’s friend (probably her boyfriend). He saw his friend getting raped and he was beaten up by the men, too.
My Aunt was beaten by her husband. She was beaten in India and beaten in the UK. She was beaten at home and even at the hospital where she worked. She wasn’t some quiet uneducated village girl with no idea about the world. She was a doctor.
My family did fuck all. His family did fuck all. In fact I am deeply disappointed with my family since they let the abuse go on for nearly 15 to 20 years. There was no voice for my aunt. She was beaten so badly that her kidneys were damaged, eventually she died due to complications from a kidney transplant outside the statutes of damage.
Men who hit women in India are not punished for hitting women, they are punished for getting CAUGHT hitting women. And Anil is talking about a recent case where a politician was attacked by a horde of women… after he was caught raping a woman. Because she couldn’t fight back WOMEN fought back as a group. Because these women cannot trust the police to arrest him they made a big enough fuss to create an issue which forced this man’s arrest. Otherwise he would have simply walked away. 5 MPs in India are facing rape charges… These are men who rule India….
The reason why so little was reported about the young man was because of the media lock down on the case. However when he was released this young man came out and gave a statement about how he was treated. And it weighs awfully badly on Indian men and India as a whole.
During the protests, a policeman was killed while performing his duty. There was hardly any news about him. Indians are concerned only when a woman is the victim and the concern is doubled if the woman is raped.
The police also opened fire on protesters with live ammunition. Women were willing to DIE for the right not to get raped to death. Oh if the young lady who got raped lived her assailants would have got just TWO YEARS in jail as a maximum sentence.
Indians were concerned because sadly a relatively rich victim was targeted and the scale and inhumanity of the crime. She was sodomised with a foreign object causing perforations of her intestines. In effect she was impaled on an iron rod. No one came to help these two and the police fucked up. That’s why it was big news. In addition politicians and indeed people like Anil shot off their stupid mouths insulting the raped girl and blaming everything from Chinese food to her clothes to her boyfriend to her willingness to fight back against the rapists. When women protested peacefully police intervened with force sparking a riot. Women were willing to die to get better treatment.
Then the Assamese riots began due to a rape there. Police opened fire there killing journalists.
A film actor was convicted of rape a few years back. The whole country went berserk. Later, the victim changed her statement and said that she was not raped. This time nobody cared. Many people are still not aware of this development.
The actor himself confessed to rape. It’s there in the fucking Wiki article. If you are running around confessing to sex as rapes then we really have a problem here. However if we are to believe Shiney’s confession then he has raped a woman and has admitted to it and unfortunately Anil simply didn’t bother reading past “Woman retracts statement”.
Did you ever consider why she retracted that statement? (Witness Badgering? Bribes? Threats? All common enough)
Yes, in our country some women are raped, tortured and subjected to humiliation. So are men. But we do not recognize those crimes against men. There are no laws to save or help men, only laws to attack them and keep them down. You can see the results of that on our streets in recent days.
At a much much MUCH lower rate and because rapes aren’t reported.
There are few laws to help men, but that’s because every time you discuss the rape of women you have idiots like Anil come out blaming women and saying that they have it “easy”. Also because Indian men are so dominant in Indian society. India is like the west in the 1950s where men are men and strong women need “taming”. It needs the first or second wave of feminism which fought against entrenched patriarchy, which is why a lot of Indian feminists seem “distasteful” to modern western feminists. Because what they are fighting is the kind of bullshit our parents and grandparents had to face down.
Don’t believe me? Anil basically has used he old argument often bandied around in the 70s “If Women Want to Be Equal, Why Must I still Be Chivalrous And Hand Over My Bus Seat” stance of a lot of anti-feminists.
But I was already aware. I saw the real problem with my own eyes; in a queue to buy a bus ticket, and in the eyes of old men, forced out of their seats to stand on a bus so that smug, entitled college girls can have a comfortable spot to rest their asses. I seem to remember hearing of similar rules, in one of the darker chapters in the history of America.
Remind me again, are the majority of leaders in power men? Remind me again about the thousands of women who die each year in highly suspicious kitchen fires? Remind me again about all the women who have to pay money to marry a man or about all the supposedly false rape stories women seem to send in? Remind me again about the Purdah system or how many “rich, entitled girls” are sent to college to net them a husband in India’s marriage trade?
And you wish to compare Indian men to the apartheid of America? Rosa Parks fought for equal treatment of black people to white people. Women are fighting in India for equal treatment to men. If white people were randomly jamming their hands down black people’s pants then I am sure black people would have had a special section white people weren’t allowed into.
This isn’t separate and equal, this is providing women with a bare minimum of facilities in a culture that still kills female babies. Please don’t compare your MRA stupidity to the pain and suffering of the American Apartheid, mainly because India is responsible for inspiring the fall of the American Apartheid. King was a big fan of Gandhi and even met Nehru to learn how he fought for freedom. He actually was more influenced by the erudite and educated Nehru rather than the ascetic values of Gandhi.
Take pride in that, don’t claim that Indian women are oppressing you so much that you feel like black people in the 60s. As an Indian man you straight up earn more money, get more promotions, have more rights, are given more respect, more freedom and are taken more seriously than women. To claim Rosa Parks as your spirit guide is just stupid. You are not Rosa, you are the KKK. You are against the rights of women and an emblem of everything that is wrong with Indian men.
Mamas don’t let your babies grow up to be MRAs.