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Nov 04 2012

Blood is Thicker than Water

In the BNP’s case? It’s certainly thicker than the average breeze block.

The BNP is a weird beast. It’s the urbane voice of the racist. It’s market is still the idiot breed of people who fear melanin as if the ability to resist the harsh rays of the sun meant that our plans to deplete the ozone layer so that we can drive the white race under ground where us darkies would hunt them for sport on the backs of T-Rexes…

I am saying that if you are going to have a stupid fear of the future, you may as well have one that’s blatantly awesome. So sit back and relax and check out the giant wall of text mocking the British National Party and in particular Lady Jane who tries to argue against the cultural diversity of my fair land.

Nationalism is all about blood. And soil. We care about the soil because of the blood. The remains of generations of our ancestors lived their lives and died here and it is that fact that makes our country – our land – our soil – sacred to us.

I thought nationalism is a form of patriotism where a group of people identify with a nation based on variety of different ideas ranging from shared ethnicity to shared ethos. Now here is the problem. The BNP assumes the shared ethnicity of the United Kingdom is White Anglo Saxon English. It’s very Braveheart and portrays english culture as something belaboured by hordes of unwashed barbarians who want to do nothing but despoil all the women and pillage the villages. It speaks of the Battle of Britain (never mind the hordes of colonial soldiers!) and a desperate fight against a foreign enemy hell bent on the total destruction of everything vaguely British…

Not the fact that the brown person’s preferred condiment on fish and chips being sriracha and vinegar rather than tartar sauce. Or that the national dish of the UK is now Curry not Fish and Chips.

And this is a faulty argument. Lest the BNP forgets, I am brown. My ancestors died and their were labours stolen by the UK to build it to what it is today. So if we are going to coast on the blood of our ancestors then the british “asian” is as much a part of british culture as the BNP is. There is no payment in the history in the world that can calculate the pain and suffering caused by colonialism or the fact that the british colonial movement was built on the hands and legs of indians and africans.

So we don’t live in the past. We don’t mention the ancestors because that doesn’t matter. What matters is what we do today. We move on. The only people interested in dragging up the past are idiots. The past is meant to educate us so that we do not repeat it’s mistakes. It’s not meant to be lived in. Like all Royalists and the like, the BNP believe if they are in power ALL the white people will be at the top. Like in the good days of Victoria right? Where there were no poor white people.

Blood is thicker than water. That’s fine. You do more for people who are related to you, but the problem with the BNP argument is that it assumes that all white people are related to each other. That amusingly enough for a party that decries communism they will somehow create a functioning white commune culture if you somehow eliminate all the negroes and asians and halfbreeds and halflings.

The calling cry of blood being thicker than water isn’t a new one. It’s an age old cry of tribalism rearing it’s ugly head.

In common with a number of Universalist religions, the modern ethos of liberal democracy, and the so-called Far Left ideology of Communism, urge us to love and care for all of humanity as if they were our brothers. This, of course, goes opposite to the Eternal Laws of Nature. Not only does indiscriminate love, equally for everyone, contradict the laws of Nature and our natural impulses, but it actually devalues love itself.

That’s some proper Sith bullshit there. If there was no hatred then there how would you know the lofty heights of love? The Eternal Laws of Nature? The eternal laws of nature have very specific things to say about people who only marry in  reduced genetic pool. I prefer to call it “Incest by Technicality”. And the eternal law of nature says nothing about the wearing of pants, the usage of the internet and the usage of loo roll. In fact, humans for the past 5000 to 10000 years have been gleefully flicking the Vs at mother nature and mooning evolution in general as we simply tech our way to our current dominance. Nature says you shouldn’t fly. My 85 Kg frame can soar through the skies faster than any eagle. Because “the eternal laws of nature” are “sort of guidelines”. Some are pretty sensible (don’t drink the brown water and don’t marry your cousin) others are pretty stupid (die at the age of 40 of horrid disease, suffer massive infant mortality, walk everywhere).

The eternal laws of nature of the racist are the paradise of Adam and Eve. A world where nothing bad happens because everything is in it’s right place.

In the Disney cartoon “The Incredibles”, the villain, Syndrome, declares “When Everyone is Super, no one will be!”

Being white is not a superpower. It really isn’t anything apart from a reduced chance of sickle cell anaemia, an increased chance of cystic fibrosis and the need to purchase sunscreen. It’s this ridiculously notion that the average white person is this superman of science, art and literature that no one else can match. That the BNP marches along to the strains of Edward Elgar while the queen eats a swan sandwich. Never mind the poor white people, they are clearly poor because they were put out of jobs by the darkies.

Not because of the various social pressures that affect them that aren’t present in the (let’s say british indian) other communities because of the cultural and social differences. The british indians mainly came in as businessmen, engineers, lawyers and doctors. We do value education to the detriment of everything else. We therefore have the highest literacy rates, highest university education rates and the like mainly because education was an escape from poverty for our parent’s generation and that has transferred to the children. Read or Die.

While white kids got videogames for their birthdays, I got mine on results day. Higher my grades meant better things. I worked hard to get these things. That’s the reason why british indian kids do well at uni and are usually pretty middle class themselves. The “extracurricular activities” are for entertainment and relaxation. So we aren’t going to produce any footballers or musicians in any great numbers but we are going to have a lot of lawyers and doctors. It’s not a stereotype it’s just that poverty was real for my parent’s generation. Not “I cannot afford organic food” poverty, but “my mum is stunted in her growth because of her diet as a child” poverty.

It is like that with love as well. If we would love everyone equally, then we would love no one. Love would be dead. To have love, to really care about people for themselves rather than for what they do for you, takes something special. Normally that special thing is a blood bond. People will fight for and protect their relatives even when there is no obvious gain for themselves in doing so. And yet this urge to help our kindred is the love that we all hope to give and to receive.

Now kill what you love… And come to the DARK SIDE! I mean… ARYAN WHITE SIDE.

Again… This notion that everyone in the UK is somehow related through mystical “whiteness” and that a shared genetic component is the sole reason to be a nice person to them. That’s fucking nonsensical because that’s like saying you have greater kinship with black cats because they are superior to white ones. Added to which is a complete misunderstanding (yeah well it’s obvious) about kin, evolution and altruism.

What white nationalists in this case are doing is trying to turn white people into a species (somehow separate from the caucasian since that includes “indians” to some extent). It fits in with their notion that “humans” are all white. (The rest of us are animals.). Rather than the reality that there is little to no difference between white and black people biologically speaking and that the differences culturally are due to nurture rather than nature. And that the entire human species is capable of altruism to each other. That a human can help another human without looking at the colour of their skin. That’s almost as moronic as saying that you refuse to help people with green eyes.

Science has found out how we evolved these feelings of kin-bonds, love and the willingness to help our own child more than that of a stranger. Understanding the scientific basis for this is vital if we are to understand also how these traits are being lost and may be lost completely if we don’t find the quick and direct way to protect them, and to protect our folk and civilisation itself.

It’s a survival trait for group living. Big fucking mystery. Your survival as part of a group is better than your survival as an individual. So team play is rewarded evolutionarily speaking (Well not playing as a team is punished by evolution. Punished by death) through the continued survival of the group. These traits aren’t going to be lost if you hang out with a bigger group.

What this argument is “If we of the blue hats tribe form a village with those of the red hats tribe then we will lose our ability to love only our blue hatted tribe and help our tribe more than that of another tribe whose rouge chapeaus are inferior and prone to robbing convenience stores”. Their argument is the argument of a dying breed. Of people who are afraid that their way is dying.

In plain english? The tribal barrier of colour has fallen, if we continue in this fashion our children will no longer be racist. This is clearly a terrible thing for reasons that escape me.

And now for some SCIENCE. That’s Right! Nazi SCIENCE!

Our blood relations share more genetic material with us than strangers do. Scientists have noted that populations of both humans and various animal species that are more homogeneous as separate groups are also more inclined to look after each other, go out of their way and self-sacrifice or show generosity to one another and other social behaviours that allow a happy cooperative social grouping.

Therefore the ideal society is one of extended families living in homesteads. Rather than modern society. Good to know that the white nationalist problem can be solved by dropping them off on one of the Hebrides to live the Fallout lifestyle. Never mind every advancement in human history to create modern society, the hunter gatherer lifestyle is the one for the BNP. The VERY CONCEPT OF NATIONALISM (which is in their name) is that you don’t have to show loyalty to your blood relations only and rather than show loyalty to a person or a faith you show it to the “concept” of a nation. You cannot put “nationalism” in your name then go make an argument for tribal nonsense. The entire point of nationalism is to break the boundaries of localism, tribalism and indeed RACE, RELIGION, CREED and GENDER to produce loyalty to an overall concept.

So if Ireland declared War on the USA there would be more “ethnically Irish” people on the American Side than on the Irish. That’s the point of NATIONALISM. It was demonstrated ironically during WW2 where a ethnically german man lead a country against Nazi Germany. That altruism of nationality is another layer of social interaction.

Evidence show there is more to it than that though because in various groups where there is known to be more genetic diversity, it is not enough that they are familiar with one another and how closely they live together.

The evidence is however collected by white nationalists who clearly have no clue how human evolution occured.

Consistently there is less love in communities where there is more diversity. Although racial/ethnic diversity is an obvious example of this diversity, the important new understanding is that of genetic diversity.

There is less love that is accepted by the white nationalists. Remember, to them a black person and a white person in love is not just evil but the complete breakdown of all reality and morality. The argument is that the more homogenous a society the less social friction there is. On the contrary, the homogenous society also has lower diversity in thought, action and achievement. It is a wall against progress and against new things. It is stagnation and stagnation is death.

Conflict in a diverse society is due to the different viewpoints. Here is one many white people are aware off. White people don’t encourage their girls into maths and the mathematical related sciences. Indians do. White people should adopt the Indian attitude towards mathematics. This will improve the way white girls are treated. This doesn’t mean “treat your women like indian girls” but “Treat your young ladies in a way that doesn’t create the skewed gender seen in mathematics”. The conflic there helps. For every “brown gang preys on white wimmin story” there are countless unheard of tales where people get along and improve the way they think about each other and see each other as human beings.

Our genes have been able to survive over generations because the way they make us behave has helped copies of those genes to multiply and to continue into the next generation. The same strategies do not work in every evolved ethnicity. The genes eventually settle into what is called an “Evolutionary Stable Strategy” or ESS. Essentially this defines our national and racial temperament and defines why our cultures differ in the way they do. It explains why, if you would replace Europeans with Africans they would continue to have their culture, the ESS, that works best for their genes and which has not been the ESS developed by Europeans.

That’s not how evolution works. Humanity in particular has it’s evolutionary niche as consumate problem solvers with a massive emphasis on flexibility. This is racist against everyone because it says that white people are racist because they cannot help it in the same way that indians are doctors. Or shopkeepers. Basically we like jobs that earn money… Because we render it into our curries and eat the souls of your dead presidents…

Fuck that makes more sense than ESS.

As the gap widens in terms of common genes, the less helpful it is to have genes that make you sacrifice you own chance to reproduce and spread your own genes. So personality traits that make people take a chance on others will pay off when they are carrying copies of that helper’s genes but will be taken out completely by natural selection if the helper is assisting someone who has genes for exploiting rather than helping. At any rate, this result happens over time as a general trend.

Only if you are a wanker… This rules only apply if you are a complete tosser.

This idiot (Lady Jane? Wasn’t she one of the good guys in GI Joe? Fuck a Duck! IF you are going to write under a pseudonym at least write under one that isn’t based on an American Cartoon. Action Man! Not GI Joe!) clearly thinks if I left my kid with a white guy he is quite likely to kill my child.

If genetics determines personality traits then Lady Janes parents were racist tossweasels.

Civilisation and a smooth running society depends upon cooperation and the natural urge to trust other members of the community, help each other, and pass on genes for continuing like that.

I agree. Which is why british society would be better off if we just stopped listening to the BNP and the racists they represent.

This is what real natural socialism is all about.

It’s spelt NATIONAL socialism dear.

Quite the opposite to the strategy of unnatural socialism that advocates those with the genetic traits for being kind and good should throw themselves in with others who have a very conflicting ESS as a group.

Because only white people are kind and good. That historically speaking white people have done nothing bad. Or is it saying that “White people are incredible Douchebags, don’t hang out with us”. Either way it is super racist.

Team Britain is being turned into self-serving cheats who are losing the very instincts to trust one another and to be the strongest force we once were.

The most law abiding ethnicity in the UK is not white. Not even third place. The first belongs to British Indians, followed by Jews and Chinese and finally white guys. Team Britain’s “Cheats” are due to low socio-economic status rather than ethnicity. There are more poor white people than these three groups. It’s not “Genetics” so much as “Economics”.

This is what is happening with the increasing genetic diversity. Once it is lost, there may well be no chance of fixing the tragedy and as all the world falls into this darkness, the light may be lost forever.

As our mentality changes and we become more genetically diverse, the “right wing” materialistic attitude that people have to be giving something of worth or else they are worthless emerges.

I am sorry but Lady Jane clearly doesn’t recognise who the Right Wingers are in this argument. (It’s the guys waving flags and claiming to be good and kind. The only difference between them and the Nazis is that the Nazis dressed better.)

In Africa it translates into the attitude that if you can get something out of someone else, of course you would do that. Everyone would.

I don’t think Lady Jane has ever been to Africa. Where amidst all the bullshit that we think Africa is full of we see some of the most amazing people who are doing their best to make Africa (an land bespoiled by kindness I will have you know!) a better place to live in. There are thousands, if not millions of people who work to a better Africa. And Lady Jane believes no white person would ever rip you off.

There is this culture that anyone would aspire to be the biggest bully, and where those who can cheat or force their way into higher status and greater riches are to be admired and emulated. In the west, the mentality is often found in successful businessmen and entrepreneurs who, along with politicians of the Conservative ilk, like to justify this mean and destructive behaviour as “Social Darwinism”. They think they are the fittest because they can treat others like dirt and personally, as an individual (having only contempt for society) enrich themselves at the expense of others.

I think I may have had a sliders moment where I suddenly am in opposite world, but are they seriously blaming the capitalisation of our society on black and asian people?Are the BNP seriously against the treating of other people like dirt.

Really? How many small business owners out here? Show of hands. Tell me what precisely happens to your business if you start dicking over your suppliers, other businesses and your customers.

Psychologists think of the westerners who behave like that as having the traits of psychopaths, as they have no sense of love, guilt or concern for the suffering they cause. Here it is considered still as unusual and freakish to be so callous.

No. They are just wankers. Greedy wankers. Everyone has them. If you are going to say that the shennanigans of american bankers are due to the cultural diversity of america then you are a fucking idiot. It’s because of the complete lack of oversight from the government with regards to the trading of securities which is a deal or no deal style game except everybody fucking loses except the guys who make a cut from trading the boxes and who LEFT the game before it ended. That this could have been sorted by simple oversight instead of the hilarious notion that regulations don’t need to be written down.

As the genetic diversity increases we will find that those of us who are disgusted by such selfish individualistic behaviour are the ones being sidelined, ridiculed and regarded as weak and strange. With less and less blood in common with those around us, the ESS, evolutionary stable strategy, that makes more sense from a genetic point of view is that society fractures into a state of exploit others or be exploited yourself.

Dobry Den Comrade! That’s awfully communist of you!

The BNP is running on the notion, of “we are absolutely disgusted at the way bankers have fucked the world up so we are going to shoot them out of cannons. Then we are going to deport all the darkies”. I am extremely disappointed at the lack of oversight and legislature to control the way banking and money is handled, so I shall vote for racists… Said no one ever…

Ideally a society would care for its unfortunates – the disabled, the unlucky, orphans, the elderly and those whose talents are in skills such as art or philosophy that cannot produce material wealth for the elite.

Except we do pay for these skills. The problem we face is that the economy has tanked. Our belts have had to be tightened and the “rich” cannot afford to spend money on art and philosophers for their salons (that’s what rich people do right? Apart from hunt philosophers down as the most dangerous sport of them all.)

Together with our breakdown of the extended family, which allowed blood to protect us from this artificial and evil exploitation, we will become defined each as an individual out in the cold world by his or herself where he or she must live by tooth and claw amongst hostile groups.

The extended family broke down due to the cheapening of travel and the expansion of the housing market as well as urbanisation. You don’t need to live with granny because granny can have her own house and her own car to do her own thing. By the power of bacon, these idiots think that extended families are nothing but a paradise rather than a family system that was prone to arguments, fights, gossip and the finest crab bucket mentality in the land. Blood is thicker than water. The BNP said it themselves. Do you really think your aunt would be as amicable to your success as your mother? The success of one is NOT the success of all. It is the power shift of the family dynamics. You spend so much time fucking around with family politics that you know what?

It is better to leave all that, live on your own and be separate from the extended family politics. Where your success isn’t used as a weapon to beat down others and your failures aren’t used as a weapon to be beaten with. And that’s coming from someone whose “extended family” are nice but still prone to this kind of petty bullshit.

Lady Jane clearly lives in some exotic fantasy where she thinks if you deport me to Kuwait/India/Sri Lanka/Burma (Yeah apparently I am going to get deported shotgun style) that she can do my job. That some inner city youth slouching and slurring his way to scoliosis, unemployment and a cauliflower ear is somehow going to have become “me” rather than the petty crime and casual street violence that seems to be the hallmark of inner city youth.

I know I joke about this, but that’s because you should laugh at racists. They are ridiculous and they lose their power if you laugh at them. Not everyone’s racists are as nice as the KKK who dress up like pointy hated ghosts. Some of them require a little work.

Blood may be thicker than water, but Lady Jane is thicker than concrete.

59 comments

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  1. 1
    leni

    Here is one many white people are aware off. White people don’t encourage their girls into maths and the mathematical related sciences. Indians do. White people should adopt the Indian attitude towards mathematics.

    I did not know that, but I sure as hell wish we would.

    I sat here for a moment and thought about what that would be like and I honestly can’t even imagine it. I’m white, female, American and have a degree in physics, so I am acutely aware of this unpleasant feature of our culture. So aware that I can’t really imagine what life might have been like without it.

    *Sigh* Better, I think.

  2. 2
    Rutee Katreya

    The argument is that the more homogenous a society the less social friction there is

    Which is pretty ironic, because if there weren’t any black or brown people around they’d be railing against the lazy scots and irish or what have you. Sounds like those white people only got over their differences because society was diverse!

  3. 3
    Drolfe

    Tangential to your points (yes, racists suck), I’ll leave this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Jaye This particular racist isn’t naming hirself after an American toy. Also, note that in our sexist culture covert ops staff sergeants are consistently depicted with their breasts popping out iff they’re women. Yay!

  4. 4
    Pierce R. Butler

    Sorry, she’s not quite nuts enough to succeed across the puddle in Gawd’s Own Country.

    And she uses too many Big Words.

  5. 5
    Argle Bargle
    This is what real natural socialism is all about.

    It’s spelt NATIONAL socialism dear.

    +1 to you, Avicenna.

  6. 6
    davidmc

    And the comments on that page are even more ignorant.

  7. 7
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Nationalism is all about blood. And soil.

    Wonders if the racist there would soil herself if she actually saw blood?

    Seems to me there’s a fundamental, very deep cowardice behind racism of most varieties perhaps?

    The only people interested in dragging up the past are idiots.

    That’s a bit harsh on historians innit?

    Fascinating topic and best not repeated.

  8. 8
    Avicenna

    It’s sadly a topic that has to be repeated. Racist idiots exist and the UK is my home too.

  9. 9
    Corvus illustris

    “Nationalism is all about blood. And soil. We care about the soil because of the blood.”
    Tja, Blut und Boden. Where did we hear about that a little less recently?

    BTW, apropos of “The BNP assumes the shared ethnicity of the United Kingdom is White Anglo Saxon English. It’s very Braveheart …”, do you mean from the standpoint of the cause whose victory pleased the gods? The movie seemed to identify with the cause that pleased Wallace.

  10. 10
    Yoritomo

    I believe the pen name refers to Lady Jane Grey who apparently has been turned into a martyr for a variety of causes that might appeal to the BNP.

  11. 11
    Arkady

    I remember a few years ago there was a tv documentary where they analysed a bunch of people’s genetic backgrounds, from the work done by Brian Sykes at Oxford University and his spin-off company, Oxford Ancestors. For most of the participants, it was an ‘oh, that’s interesting’ kind of response, but they managed to find a woman who believed that to be English you had to be Anglo-Saxon to the nth degree. In her case, they found a significant degree of eastern european/Roma DNA, to within a couple of generations, and her reaction was to threaten to sue the programme makers!

    I do wonder if someone with money to burn could set up a fund at Oxford Ancestors to offer free genetic tests to members of the BNP…

    (one of the interesting points to come out of this ancestry research was that those who are of white british descent are seldom less than 60% Celt. The many invasions of what is now the UK didn’t have that much impact on the total population)

    My own background, while thoroughly ‘white’ (I burn like a peach), includes one Russian-Jewish great grandmother. I imagine a hell of a lot of the white UK population has something similar in their family history, the more people who realise what utter bullshit the BNP’s idea of racial purity is, the better.

  12. 12
    geocatherder

    I live in Silicon Valley, and served two decades’ penance as a (actually pretty good) engineer before I reinvented myself as a scientist and an artisan. This is in some ways an amazingly diverse place, in terms of ethnicity. It’s also in some ways a very non-diverse place, because so many people are connected through the tech industry. I get a lot (or at least I used to get a lot) of racist email passed around by members of the family in the whiter midlands of the country. Their targets are usually Muslims nowadays, though some of them think that President Obama is the Antichrist. The reason the hate mail to me has dropped off is because I write back with something like this, targeted to the minority in question:

    Q: what does the white engineer worry about in the middle of the night? A: how s/he’s gonna put the kids through college.
    Q: what does the Muslim/black/Indian/Asian engineer worry about in the middle of the night? A: how s/he’s gonna put the kids through college.
    Now tell me again why I should be Islamophobic/racist.

    It gets me off the mailing lists, at least.

  13. 13
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    8. Avicenna :

    It’s sadly a topic that has to be repeated. Racist idiots exist and the UK is my home too.

    Of course. Sorry. What I was meaning there was that history is a fascinating topic and best not repeated alluding to the famous saying / quotation (forgot who first said it, I’m afraid) that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.”

  14. 14
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    A bit of google and aha. Found it. See :

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Santayana

    Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

    This famous statement has produced many paraphrases and variants:
    Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
    Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.
    Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
    Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of their predecessors are destined to repeat them.
    Those who do not know history’s mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

    Plenty of other good quotes /interesting quotes from there too.

    Racism sadly is indeed an ugly part of our history – and sadder still remains a factor in the present too.

    Sorry about the confusion there.

  15. 15
    im

    GAH! This really sucks. I mean seriously, they said that loving everyone is bad, because of THAT? It has often pleased me to play the villian, but I would never deign to play the dreadful hero!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEle_DLDg9Y

    Also, they kind of suck at writing. I mean, seriously? Blood and soil? Using up your love? These are not even vaguely my nationalists. Fortunately, I’m not Anglo-Saxon.

    At first I thought the Lady Jane was an actual modern Peer of Britain… That would be completely pathetic.

    They can’t even seem to think of moving forward!

  16. 16
    Bill Openthalt

    Humans naturally identify with a group (more accurately, several groups, depending on the moment and the circumstances). Unless everyone is part of the same group (which somehow defeats the purpose), this creates a us/them divide.

    Like every trait, group identification is a spectrum, and those most enclined to groupishness will perceive others as more markedly different. At the level of consciousness, the difference is felt as anything from a mild dislike to outright disgust. Even with people who are avowed anti-racists, tests show that they have the innate tendency to rank people based on closeness (and external signs such as skin tone, gender, sartorial and language differences, or even merely standing with another group, define how close one perceives another person), and instinctively react more negatively to people perceived as more distant. It all makes sense when one is living in a tribe.

    When asked to explain the feelings of disgust, the mind comes up with rationalisations. Being rationalisations, their correspondence with reality is tenuous, and they can easily be used by members of another group as proof of the stupidity (or even wickedness) of the other group.

    As a corollary, accentuating the differences between the groups only strengthens the feelings of belonging to one’s group and the distate for the members of the other group. “Better” arguments from one group only lead to “better” arguments from the other group.

    Looking for, and empathising with the needs people are trying to meet through identification with a group are a better way to reducing tensions and fostering acceptance.

  17. 17
    bradleybetts

    The BNP are a wart on the arse of British Politics. Sweet FSM, how I hate them.

    This bit, in particular, got me; “In Africa it translates into the attitude that if you can get something out of someone else, of course you would do that. Everyone would… Psychologists think of the westerners who behave like that as having the traits of psychopaths”

    Er, no. Psychologists think of everyone who acts like that as psychopaths, and it is most certainly not an attitude endemic to Black culture! Essentially what she just said is “All Blacks are psychopaths!”. What a twat. Sorry, Avicenna, I had to stop reading at this point. The stupidwas sucking out my brain matter and creating a vacuum; any more of her drivel would make my head implode.

    One small thing, Avicenna; “Like all Royalists and the like, the BNP believe if they are in power ALL the white people will be at the top.” I don’t appreciate being lumped in with these thoughtless fuckwits just because I like the Royal family and think the tourism benefits outweigh the cost in taxes. Liking the Royals doesn’t make you a racist.

  18. 18
    bradleybetts

    My favourite game with a BNP supporter is to:
    a) point out that Anglo-Saxons invaded this country and so technically that makes all White English immigrants. If we followed their logic, we should give the whole country back to the Welsh and the Cornish and bugger off back to Northern Germany.
    b) since Homo Sapiens evolved in the African Rift Valley, technically they are African.

    Then sit back and watch their head explode.

  19. 19
    Paulino

    as Bradley was saying Anglo-Saxons*, who raped Celts, who raped whoever was there before…

    I think the fault of the later non-white “invasion” of the British Isles is that it has not involved murder, pillage and rape, you know, things that develop deep kinship between people.

    *-somewhat raped by Norse

  20. 20
    bradleybetts

    @Paulino

    I believe the Celts were the first, in particular a tribe originating in the area now known as Brittany, called the Britons. They spread throughout the Isles and diversified into separate tribes, including the Picts in what is now Scotland, before the Scots invaded from northern Ireland and beat them up. Then the Romans invaded and subjugated all the indigenous tribes, then the Saxons invaded, the Romans pulled out, and the Saxons pushed all the Brythonic tribes to the inhospitable (with their levels of technology, at any rate) edges of their former territory, namely Wales and Cornwall. Then the Danes invaded and occupied all of Northern England and the Midlands. Then things settled down for a while, Alfred the Great’s line finally succeeded in uniting the Kingdoms of Northumbria, Mercia, East Anglia and Wessex into one country, miscegenation continued on it’s merry way until the two peoples were culturally indistinguishable and then a while later there was that little episode where the Normans (Danes who had settled the North coast of France, and essentially found themselves in the same situation as the Danes in England)invaded and became our ruling class.

    My point being that to say that Saxons are the original and only true Brits is a complete and utter nonsense. The British are a race of mongrels, and I like it that way. Inbreeding is not healthy.

    I also particularly enjoy explaining the above to BNP supporters, but it’s rare to find one that has the attention span and intellectual capacity to take it all in before starting a rant about “Liberalism”.

  21. 21
    Corvus illustris

    Says bradleybetts @20:

    I believe the Celts were the first, in particular a tribe originating in the area now known as Brittany, called the Britons. They spread throughout the Isles and diversified into separate tribes, including the Picts in what is now Scotland, before the Scots invaded from northern Ireland and beat them up. Then the Romans invaded and subjugated all the indigenous tribes, then the Saxons invaded, the Romans pulled out, and the Saxons pushed all the Brythonic tribes to the inhospitable (with their levels of technology, at any rate) edges of their former territory, namely Wales and Cornwall. [and there's more]

    You did mean this as satire? As Sankt Pauli would say, it isn’t even wrong.

  22. 22
    Don Quijote

    Ha! My father was born in London from Scottish/Irish parents and my mother was born in Barcelona from Spanish/Argentinian parents. I was born in London. Take that BNP.

    Isn’t it from Lady Jane Gray that the saying “a nine day wonder” comes from?

  23. 23
    Paulino

    @Bradley,
    exactly! I was just underlining your point! :)

  24. 24
    im

    “I don’t appreciate being lumped in with these thoughtless fuckwits just because I like the Royal family and think the tourism benefits outweigh the cost in taxes. Liking the Royals doesn’t make you a racist.”

    Maybe about a specific Royalist party or movement?

    @Corvus: WTF? What actually did happen?

  25. 25
    Corvus illustris

    im @24: Oh my FSM, it’s a mess! and there is great scholarly disagreement. The bradleybetts narrative ignores the fact that homo sapiens has been in the Britains since before the last Ice Age, messes up the order of events, inserts an irrelevant and possibly false detail about Celts invading from Bretagne, takes “tribes” for granted, has the Angles. etc., pushing out the Romans (who left on their own about the time of the sack of Rome in AD 410, with a kick in the rear from the Britanni), neglects the Britanni resettlement of Bretagne and their push up into Strathclyde–the list goes on. I tried to summarize in a comment but it grew out of bounds. If you wish, start in the English-language Wikipedia “History of the British Isles” and follow the links, observing that one article will contradict another from time to time: it’s a good overview and the contradictions show how complicated things are. (The German-language article is longer and has more detail on some subjects; my French is slow.)

  26. 26
    Corvus illustris

    One last thing to mention–and it’s really apropos of the title of Avicenna’s post–is the work of Bryan Sykes (who professed genetics at Oxford) on the (mitochondrial and Y-) DNA of the British isles. His nontechnical book Blood of the Isles (the BNP must love the title, but not the contents–it’s called Saxons, Vikings and Celts in the US) shows DNA giving a very different picture of the populations of the Britains from that of the popular invasion narratives. (The Wikipedia article on Sykes gives a summary of the results of the book.) In particular, his “cultural Celts” are very different from the putative invading Celts of continental Europe.

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