Are we not the strongest link?

How to target students.

Here’s what gets me. I would think that students were the strongest link in the organisation. It’s easy to target some old “scientist” in his “lair” making “huge money” but when you target some kid working on his degree, well you kind of are treading a thin moral line.

Continuing on from issues raised in this thread, we see that the lovely people at NIO have a thread suggesting people to target and more fallacies. I reprint the letters here so that we don’t need to give them more traffic.

Letter 1: “Yes, we need to target students.” (specific information will be published at close of semester)

“Hi Camille, As you probably know, school will be out here in a matter of days. I’ve heard a lot about this campaign against vivisection students but there is no time left this semester. But I say yes,  yes, yes. We need to target students… Many students who are in my class now at __________ will continue at UF in the fall. You need to understand their indoctrination and the disgusting professors that shape these young peoples minds. Everyone in the nursing program here is expected to dissect an animal. HM is my professor for this lab. When some of us objected to dissecting pigs or crows, he offered to bring us in live squirrels from his backyard. As if we were objecting because we wanted “better” victims! He offered to trap them. He offered to gas them for us if we didn’t want to kill them ourselves…. WHAT THE FUCK… What are your ideas about moving forward with this campaign?” 
First, HM is a violent degenerate. Is it any wonder that our universities are churning out empathy-deficient sadists who will spend their professional lives in dungeons tormenting animals for profit? ! I’m wondering if there is some health code or animal protection law that HM the Sociopath has violated. After all, they don’t want their students to contract rabbis, lime disease, etc. while they are being taught the joys of mutilating helpless victims. Try to eliminate him the old-fashioned way: write a letter to your student dean, the Dean of Admissions, the college president, any applicable oversight committees… ah, hell, why stop there? copy the lunch lady and custodian too. Blast this terrorist for endangering the welfare of the student body. They don’t care about animal rights. But they definitely care about lawsuits and bad P.R.!!! 
Second, I would suggest that you hold on to the roster of names in this class so that those who matriculate into biology at UF in the fall can be easily identified.

 You cannot learn what an animal works from a model. You can only see what an animal looks like from it. You cannot understand variations or indeed cope with movement and understand physiological dependences of the various systems on each other. Some other points to make…

Rabies is spread by animal bite. Rodents tend to not transmit rabies. Rabbis are a collection of Jewish Priests.

Lyme’s disease is exclusively spread by deer ticks. You would control the tick population by killing deer. And you get it from walking in the countryside rather than from sheltered animals in labs.

If you wrote a letter as a biologist to the dean arguing about whether you would get Rabies from Rodents or Lyme’s Disease, the dean would personally call you an idiot. Seriously did this person not read the course details? If I were learning biology, I would expect to see some sort of live animal. Just as how in learning medicine I regularly see live humans who tolerate my shoddy treatment as I get better at it.

“Hi Camille, I’m a member of your Facebook page and a college student at a small college ________, which is connected to a large college ________. I am very much for signing petitions and calling officials, but when it comes to bigger displays of activism I don’t know what to do. I know that animals are tested on and cut up at both schools and I’d like to draw attention to it. Unfortunately, the town I’m in is VERY big into hunting and polluting the environment with coal, which means I’d probably have little to back me up here. I have no idea how or where to start. Do you have any suggestions? Maybe there’s an anti-vivsection group at __________ I could look into. I want the anti-vivisection campaign in Florida to spread to all universities. I look forward to hearing from you. Regards” 

95% of my email indicates that we all want to make a difference, but — up until now — we just didn’t know how. We are all conditioned to think that we need groups of activists to be effective but the truth is that effectiveness starts with each one of us as individuals. If we’re going to stand on a corner with a sign and be polite, then, whether we’re alone or 100-strong, all we are is an amusing pest. It’s rare to find of group of aggressive activists in the states. Lisa Grossman and I had a moment of clarity this weekend: in our anti-viv campaign at UF, we would rather be two people with megaphones, anger, and attitude than have to spend another second placating other activists, fraternizing with welfarists, or toning down the rhetoric. And now that we’ve decided to shift some of our attention to the student body, we will explain ourselves to no one. 
But taking on universities is not the best use of our energy or resources. I encourage students to look into your universities and focus on the nexus of the issue — the students: they will either usher in the next generation of laboratory horror or we can all liberate future victims by eliminating the source of the problem now. 
*You need to isolate the biology- and research-science students. 
*They need to be educated and given a chance to make the correct and compassionate decision to denounce animal torture. If they refuse, they become the enemy like any other. 
Many students still live with their parents or they are out on their own for the first time in their young lives. We want to target those who are the weakest links — “science nerds” (i.e., alienated, socially-isolated, bookworms) — and those who are the worst-case abusers (i.e., those who gloat when we educate them and talk about eating cheeseburgers): 
*Enemy students should begin to get their own home demos. 
*If you are only one person or two, then go door-to-door and leaflet their neighborhood. We’ve had great success with this strategy. 
*Get a megaphone and drop by their parents’ place of employment. 
*Any tactic that has been employed thus far against laboratory sadists should now be focused on enemy student vivisectors.

Camille admits that she solely wants to target the students because she perceives biology students to be a weak link in the system. The assumption is that you can threaten them and they will back down. A lot of them won’t. A lot of them will fight back by being determined to finish their courses and prove them wrong.

By compassionate decision she means “give up biology”. On her website she even carries lists of veterinarian students who “experiment on animals”. After all how else are they supposed to treat animals if not for experimentation on animals?

Students tend to live in student neighbourhoods. Students do not like other students being targeted by any group. Your plans to attack them will fail and you will alienated yourself from non science students. You will also rise above the surface of .

Targetting their parents is just “low”. The animal lib movement and particularly the NIO are nothing but bullies who torment those who do science solely for their own pleasure. The idea is that progress will occur if we stop biological and pharmacological experimentation on animals and somehow come up with a brilliant breakthrough in almost every field of biology (sans the methodology for break through) to make vivisection completely pointless (which we would know innately using our science vision rather than our normal process of painstaking experimentation and statistical comparisons)

I think Camille has not understood scientists. I know very well the unsocial scientist is a caricature. Few are unsocial, it’s a death sentence to be unsocial since scientists work in teams. You have to be a team player to do science. Being an alienated socially awkward bookworm is career suicide. You have to be social, you have to be smart enough to dumb down your explanations where necessary. Biologists would probably be the jocks of the science world in any case courtesy of a lot of them having to do field work which can involve walking long distances after rare animals.

“i worked (2009-2010) at the department of anatomy and neurobiology of university of california in irvine (uci) under the mentorship of dr. anne calof. there’s a lot of different projects running in the lab but they are mainly about neurogenesis and development using mice (wt and transgenic) as model system. when i started i was neutral about animal research. if i had to do it, i’ll learned it and did it… just as any other lab technique… 

well, they taught me how “wean and tail” them. the tail part consists in putting the pups in a chamber of analgesic gas, hopefully not too long ’cause they are so small they can die if left too long, taking them out, burning a blade (to sterilize) i will use to cut a small piece of tail to genotype (by pcr) and then, because you know this we do it we hundreds of them, i have to mark them with a number. this number is a hole that i punch out of the ear of the mice. the hole in different part of the ear tells me their number/id. there are other ways, i’m just telling you the way we used to do it. 

after genotyping, then i decide which mice are the ones i want for whatever experiment we would be running. usually, in my case, my boss wanted everything because she was neurotic like that, but normally we would take the wild types of the litter and the knockouts… this experience made me grow from neutral to what the fuck?!?!”

This alone shows that the letter writer didn’t grasp the point of the experiment. Either the teaching was lost on her (AKA this is a way of categorising mice according to genotype).

The author (not Camille but a supporter) is a terrible lab technician, Dr. Calof’s request isn’t neurotic. It’s conscientious, she is a very stringent experimenter attempting to categorise mice as much as possible so that she doesn’t need to use that many mice. The more data you could compile on each mouse used, the more results you get and the less you need to do repeats and the less follow experiments.

The idea that vivisection for medical and biological research will stop if you threaten the medics and the biologists is entirely laughable. We can reduce the numbers, maybe even replace the model animal entirely with a superior synthetic creature some day. However as for now there are no alternatives for testing and that solution is science fiction.

The NIO have a problem. They assume that science works like in a video game. You work on a problem long enough you find a solution. The solution for the reduction of the use of animals and indeed the halt of vivisection, lies in the hands of the people working on animals. Not in the hands of Camille Marino and her cohort of anti-science bullies. Camille would damn millions of humans for hundreds of mice while probably hypocritically owing her daily bread to the death of various animals anyways. She is not the solution to the vivisection problem, she is part of the vivisection problem herself.

People like her and the ALF, the animal rights (Not to be concerned with animal welfare who I appreciate) movement claim to be progressive individuals. But in their idea of life the life of a human being is of the same value as a mouse. And by that logic the life of a tiger is the same value as that of a deer. They don’t love animals or the environment, if they get their way, the depletion of our species would increase rather than decrease.

They have no solutions, only more problems. And the people paying the price are not the scientists or the animals but the people who cannot afford the extra cost of drugs caused by these individual’s actions. 


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