A friend is leading a discussion on reproductive justice and would like all the links related to last month’s blow-up in one place. I realized I’d tweeted many of them and, thus, had them collected in other posts already. This is just pulling them all together, though I’m sure I don’t have them all. If I missed anything that contributed to the discussion, please drop it in the comments.
Reactions and Counter-Reactions to David Silverman’s Statement in His CPAC Interview
- Is there a secular argument against abortion?–“If you’re using ‘secular’ to mean ‘a logical, science-based, or rational’ belief, then no, there is no “secular argument” against abortion.”
- David Silverman offers compromise on women’s rights–“By floating the inane concept that there may be reasonable secular arguments against abortion rights, he was offering a space to compromise on the issue.”
- Dave Silverman is not anti-choice.–“And here we go again.”
- Which atheists get exemption from criticism?–”JT Eberhard has invented a series of rationales for why people had the temerity to question the president of American Atheists (and he didn’t call me up to ask if any of them were valid!).”
- David Silverman’s “Darwin Was Wrong” Moment–”Surely New Scientist’s terrible choice in creating the ‘Darwin Was Wrong’ cover happened not so long ago that the skeptical community has forgotten the sturm und drang that rightly came after it. And yet, here we are.”
- Courting atheist conservatives: a misguided strategy, statistically–”Abortion isn’t “as clear cut” as those other issues. Compared with school prayer, it’s more clear cut that Secular Americans favor abortion rights.”
- There Is Also a Secular Argument For Infanticide–”But whether such arguments exist, and whether they have any merit, is beside the point.”
- A Secular Argument for Transphobia–”My previous post, Green, which I presented without comment, was actually a piece of creative nonfiction. It was about my family’s response to my transition: taking advantage of my disability to isolate me.”
- I Lost My Best Friend to Abortion – I Can Stand to Lose the Atheist Orgs–”We’d survived about everything together. We made it through the years of horrible clingy-ness and self-esteem issues brought on by a lifetime in a church that told him he was worthless.”
- Rending the Tent: A Statement from the Secular Woman Community–”The Secular Woman Board of Directors and larger community hold a woman’s bodily autonomy to be out of bounds for debate, negotiation, or compromise.”
- Messaging is important. Women are furious. Stop being blockheads.–”No, the controversy hasn’t gone away.”
Reactions and Counter-Reactions to Hemant Mehta’s Pro-Life Humanist Guest Post
- An atheist can be pro-life only by lying about the science–”She’s doing it again. She’s claiming that science justifies her position.”
- Having a Reasonable Debate About Abortion–”Yes. By all means. Let’s have a calm, reasonable debate about abortion.”
- A Response To A Pro-Life Atheist and The Friendly Atheist–”We are talking about an ideal that exists in a perfect world. Rather than the brutish reality we live in.”
- The Secular ProLife Argument is Poop–”Some people are upset with Dave Silverman for Saying Some Things. And with Hemant Mehta for Letting Some Things Be Written. I am one of these people, and for many of the reasons that others have posted.”
- You Made Your Bed, Now Burn in It–“We–this movement–are not having this debate.”
- Actual people with personalities, characters, wishes–“My first pregnancy turned Wahoonie-shaped around week ten and I needed an abortion (which is never counted as an abortion-abortion, but as a reasonable medical intervention because reasons. Probably because I suffered enough since I actually wanted to be pregnant very much).”
- #UpForDebate–”So since so many in the rationalist skeptic community insist that the only reasonable thing is to have debates in which both sides of the issue with regards to human rights, I think I’ve decided to jump on the bandwagon.”
- Up for debate–”I can think of a few.”
- More up for debate–”Everything should be up for debate, right? It’s the hallmark of an open society. Nothing should be off the table – that way tyranny lies.”
- On the Privilege of Discussing Abortion–”I was assured, however, that no one with a uterus could be found to engage in the debate. No professor on campus, no SSA speaker, was willing to discuss the issue.”
- The Real Debate Isn’t About “Life” But About What We Expect Of Women–”This is my idea of what hell looks like. If hearing that troubles you, I have to ask: Why?”
- A Thought Experiment for the Philosophy Dudebros–”All right, dude. Ready for a thought experiment? You’re always totally down with one, I’m sure, cuz you’re a philosophy dude.”
- What Hemant Wouldn’t Print–“There is nothing that becomes new and fresh about the pseudoscience used to place unnecessary restrictions on abortion when the person using that pseudoscience is not religious.”
- Rending the Tent: The Expansion Continues–“We respect Mehta’s absolute right to determine the content of his blog. We just question his decisions and what it means for the inclusion of women, feminists, and progressives in the atheist community.”
- What Is #UpForDebate in the Secular Community?–“But at the same time, there are some questions that are clearly outside the bounds of legitimate discussion. No one would tolerate a presentation on whether we should have separate, segregated conventions for black and white secularists.”
- Equal friendly time–“Hemant Mehta – the ‘friendly’ atheist – has a post about a creationist complaining about not getting equal time with Cosmos. Mehta is scornful.”
- An Obvious Alternative–“But maybe there’s a way to prevent most abortions AND not force unwillingly pregnant people from staying pregnant. Maybe there’s a third way.”
Reactions and Counter-Reactions to Massimo Pigliucci’s Comments About Abortion Decisions
- David Silverman and the scope of atheism–“You may have heard of the latest tempest in a teapot to hit the often tumultuous waters of modern atheism, this one surrounding American Atheists’ President David Silverman.”
- The Day I Decided to Have an Abortion–“As it turns out, Massimo Pigliucci is not happy with how I decided to have an abortion.”
- Massimo Pigliucci, Abortion, and the Scope of Tradition–”Dear Massimo Pigliucci: You seriously think abortion has nothing to do with atheism?”
- Masimo Pigliucci – Abortion ethics without the experiences of real life is just inadequate–”I thought the debate was over. Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life? We sit and debate ethics in the ivory tower when we should base our ethics on real world outcomes.”
- Inalienable–“Also: philosophy types should not act like Spocks. They should not get all surprised and miffed when women who have an investment in abortion rights get pissed off by dispassionate discussion of whether women in fact should have abortion rights.”
More General Discussion of Secular Anti-Abortion Arguments and Tactics
- What really matters…The So-Called Secular Arguments Against Choice–”Groups like Secular Pro-Life, that openly cooperate with and have members from the Religious Right, can rightly claim that he said there is a secular argument for their cause. One already has.”
- What Secular Anti-Choicers Are Really Saying–”Giliell, professional cynic, -Ilk-, has decoded the language of those secular people who think women (or trans men) who had the temerity to have sex (or get raped) should carry the resulting pregnancy to term”.
- On Bodily Autonomy–”I doubt I need to put this in context.”
- The most vulnerable members–“I’m sure they think they’re secular, I’m sure they aren’t officially religious, but their rhetoric is saturated in religion, whether they’re aware of it or not.”
- Post the whole sentence, cheaters–”Of course we acknowledge it. A human embryo is of the human species. The issue is not that it’s not human and the issue is not that it’s not alive.”
- Now Friends on Facebook–“The real threats to life are disease, poverty, violence, war, workplace hazards, environmental hazards, accidents, lack of education – systemic problems, social problems, problems of inequality and malpractice.”
- Abortion Is a Human Right–“I used to think abortion was hideous, but if mom or baby was in danger, then it could be done.”
- Magic Sandwich Show, No. 75, Sunday 23 march 2014 (YouTube)–“Topics for discussion include recent discoveries about the universe and abortion.”
- Secular Pro-Life: A New Religion–“I was raised in a strict Judaic upbringing so I’ve always considered the pro-life position on abortion law to represent a two-fold threat; a threat to not just the rights of women but to the right of my religious group of upbringing to practice their religious beliefs when it comes to abortion.”
- Secularpro-life: Holocaust Baiting–“Sure, let’s do that math.”
- Planned Parenthood CHEATS DONORS?!–“And please be aware that making accusations like you made when you lack the tools to understand why what you’re doing is wrong, or have them but don’t care, is at best incredibly irresponsible, at worst ethically repugnant and dangerous.”
- SecularProLife & AbortionSafety.com–“Some things never change. This is just a modern version of the same tactics the anti-abortion movement has been using since the 1910s.”
- Is Secular Anti-Choice a Thing? And How Big a Hypocrite Is Rep. Vance McAllister? (podcast)–“On this episode of Reality Cast, I’ll be talking to two activists trying to raise the word that secular anti-choicers aren’t as rational and evidence-based as they pretend to be.
- Secular Pro-Life Same Old Scare Tactics–“If I were to tell you that a purportedly secular anti-abortion group was engaging in the very same fear mongering and harassment of abortion providers that the largely Christian dominated pro-life groups do; would you be surprised?”
Thanks for this list, Stephanie.
Steve Ahlquist followed up “David Silverman offers compromise on women’s rights” with another post, entitled “Silverman at CPAC: My Interpretation Stands”.
http://www.steveahlquist.com/2014/03/silverman-at-cpac-my-interpretation.html
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/category/pandagon/
Amanda Marcotte wrote, Substituting The Word “Nature” For “God” Doesn’t Make Your Argument Less Religious, Anti-Choicers.
Thank you for the comprehensive list. I think I’ve read most of them, but will be reading the list
Someone on Facebook pointed out this post from Libby Anne that is highly relevant though unrelated to the blowup: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html
I’m struck by how empty of content the defenses of Silverman really are. Appeals to “loyalty” and accusations of tearing the movement apart (I’m looking at you, JT Eberhard), but (aside from Hemant’s “guest post”), no attempts to lay out why it’s a good idea for movement atheism/skepticism to embrace conservative principles at all.
It’s almost like they don’t have anything.
@ Flewellyn,
The one thing it comes close to doing for the movement is robbing the religious right of political power by altering the republican party line. Shit secular arguments exist for all the social (non-)issues and we should consider which half of conservatism is easier to fight, libertarians or christians, and then manipulate them to our advantage.
Silverman fumbled that interview badly, as well as JT and Hemant and others compounding on his error, but the basic idea of setting the oligarchs against the theocrats seems sound to me. It helps us directly on abortion access, since they lose soul arguments as a “lalalalalala can’t hear you.”
Progress against the rest of the kyriarchy and keeping randroid taint out of the movement is still a concern, but it could start with seeding a secularist version of log cabin republicans.
That Marcotte article really resonated with me, and helped me put a couple of ideas into place.
I like reading her, but she’ll have a hard time topping that one.
This is a blog post of mine that is indirectly related to the secular pro-life discussion.
The reproductive choice topic came up after the David Silverman interview where he discussed attending the CPAC convention and how he thought this was a growth opportunity for atheism.
I have my doubts about this:
“Conservatism Limiting the Growth of Atheism??”
http://philosophicalpenguins.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/conservatism-limiting-the-growth-of-atheism/