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The Response

A commenter at Ophelia’s asked, with regard to the threat on Twitter, “Has anyone defended this e.g. at the Slymepit or on these blogs?” To answer that question, have this. The Storify is here, if the embed doesn’t work for you.

Then there’s the slime pit. This part was particularly ugly, as they were busy picking over Pamela Gay’s recent post.

feralandproud:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo … /#comments

Svan proving once again that if you look for something to be offended by, you’ll probably find it. Comments are the usual circlejerk…

Aneris:

And Zvan, yeah. Troll comments on twitter by two people transmute into “the Slymepit sez” (negative tweets/comments ones only, of course). If we play that game, they’re all Rape Apologists among other things.

feralandproud:

Critical thinking at it’s finest! “If they don’t like us, it’s not because we’re fucking horrible; it’s because they’re friends with the enemy!”

ReneeHendricks:

I heard about this yesterday. What has me scratching my head is this – if she was searching for tweets regarding her husband’s photography, exactly how did those tweets by Jack Rayner and LazySavant show? I did a quick Twitter search for “Ben Zvan” and then “#benzvan” and *neither* of those tweets showed up. It only works if she’s searching for “Zvan”. But even more curious is that she says she has (I assume) LazySavant blocked so his tweet would not have shown up in a search. Unless, of course, she decided to log out of her account and do a search. Which then indicates to me she was actually looking for shit being said about her.

Cry me a fucking river, SVanity.

Mykeru:

And this is what happens when you let your guard down:

You end up feeding the manatee.

On behalf of Lazy Savant and I, allow me to apologize profusely for giving that mean-spirited poo-bag ephemeral purpose.

Southern:

Nobody said it yet? Well, excuse me then:

MYYYYYKEEEEERUUUUU! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!

But could someone please tell Swazan that if she wants someone to offend her, I could do that for free, in large ammounts and being as mean spirited as she would possibly want? Give me five minutes for inspiration.

I used to play DotA on the Battle.net (no moderation or punishment for trashtalking outside ladder playing, yay!), so I got a lot of experience in insults about sexuality, virginity (and the lack of, specifically the oral and anal ones), fatness, nationality, penile size (male AND female penises), and mom issues.

welch:

Simply by existing and not kowtowing on both knees to her, you offend her. No real effort needed.

mikelf:

Gee, Mr. Southern, you’re so special! I wish one day I could grow to be just like you!”

Tapir [Noting that Caine offered me sympathy]:

I hope Zvan doesn’t have a pace-maker.

Southern:

Or that she took her rabies shot. Caine & Her Merry Band of Rats probably aren’t very healthy to be around.

Badger3k:

So that’s the whole thing she’s harassing you for (remember storifying is harassment)? A joke about wearing a svzn-suit? Of course, why would anyone want to wear it – wouldn’t you be afraid of what you’d catch?

Stefunny… [animated emoticon playing a violin]

Mykeru:

Oh, excellent point. I will alert Twitter to her storifying harassment

James Caruthers:

I wish they would cut out the pretense.

All of these fucks are in a state of constantly ego-searching for anything related to them. If they can’t find what they want with google, they will come to the Pitt and search here.

It’s a shame their fans will never figure this shit out. It’s like Barack Obama visiting the Fox News discussion forums every single damn day and then posting what he finds on his twatter. “Look at all of the horribleness I receive, just for being black!” Yeah, and I’m sure the ACA, drone strikes, patriot act, gitmo, etc had nothing to do with it? And of course, if he did find some actual racism, he could extrapolate that to represent every single person who doesn’t like him. :D

feralandproud [who added the link to my post at the pit]:

I just recently started following the online atheist/skeptic community(about 4 months ago). After literally like a week of reading blogs and following links I figured this shit out. If the average FtB “fan” doesn’t at least check out the ‘pit once in a while, I’ll eat my goddamn hat. Willful ignorance is no excuse. They’re exactly like schoolyard bullies. They can dish it out, but the second it’s returned they’re all, “Teacher! Teacher!” That applies to the wannabe celebutards and their fans. I’m so happy I found this place.
:D

free thoughtpolice:

Has Lazy_Savant ever posted here? Or is Janine doing her regular schtick of hallucinating and lying at the same time?

Aneris:

Nobody is registered with that user name. Not that it made a difference. Any person who is mildly associated is enough to make it all about the whole. We spoof their actual comments (with source). Nerd is being made fun of for the things he writes, Myers for what he writes and so on. And they are lampooned for traits they consistently express. Plus some general points that emerge about them as a culture. They, however, collectively hate everyone based on what one or five people write. The women faction, curiously, is always about feeling victimized. Their men are always ragey and angry. In SJW land, the gender roles are very traditional.

ianfc:

From ekwhite’s take on Lazy_Savant and Mykeru’s SZ twitter exchange I’m guessing English is not ekwhite’s 1st, 2nd or 3rd language

Badger3k:

Shoot. All they have to do is link to Clarke’s “only joking” post, or say they were playing Cards Against Humanity. It’s supposed to be offensive and is a get out of jail free card.

Gumby:

What @Lazy_Savant tweeted was pretty dumb. Not because it was a death threat – obviously it wasn’t, only the intentional drama whores at FtB etc. pretend it is – but because it plays right into the infinitely dishonest victim narrative these dingbats flaunt. Zvan just took the lead in the persecution points game these pathetic bumblers are always playing. She’s waddling around hoisting that tweet like a fucking trophy.

Sulman:

That was my immediate thought. I knew full well she would hunt that down “Looking for reactions to my brother’s photography” my arse. She name-searched herself.

Much as I do love this community, there’s a definite downside in perpetually supplying the other team with ammunition.

ianfc:

Trying to imagine Lazy_Savant [Anyone want to figure out what this is supposed to be a picture of?]

welch:

and if svan really feels that was a serious threat against her, I absolutely encourage her to report it to the authorities. As one does when one gets a serious threat against one’s person or family.

I have, actually, been advised that documenting the threats is exactly what they would do, and that’s already done. But it’s always nice to get law enforcement advice from an IT guy.

Matt Cavanaugh:

Would anyone here put it past that attention whore Svan to fake a death threat against herself?

laZy_SaVANt

Just sayin’.

ConcentratedH2O, OM:

Beautiful imagery, as always Gumby! :D [applauding emoticon]

AndrewV69:

So is this the “Death Threat”?

[copy of tweet]

Does not look as if it was actually tweeted to the black swan (to me anyway).

Karmakin:

It’s what I said on twitter. Zvan is a troll. Don’t feed the fucking trolls. I understand it’s fun sometimes. Really I do. But there’s a definite cost in terms of our collective sanity when you do that. It’s simply not worth it.

Skep tickle [tweet images not included]:

There are a couple of Storifies re @LazySavant’s joke that bombed.

Here, @ool0n does chide @LazySavant, albeit pretty mildly: http://storify.com/elevatorgate/conversation-with-lazysavant-ool0n-and-aratina

Another Storify I saw earlier added in a comment that @LazySavant & @ool0n often banter around on twitter; I haven’t checked that out for veracity, but it does look like it just in the past day or two.

As @LazySavant has subsequently pointed out, he was make reference to a movie – the “woman suit” scenario is from Silence of the Lambs.

Anyway, the last tweet in the Storify linked above is @aratina advising that if @LazySavant just apologizes to @szvan and deletes the tweet, everything’ll be fine.

Surprise surprise, @LazySavant has been added to the Block Bot, level 2: http://storify.com/The_Block_Bot/38959986

Later there’s a joking exchange with @RichSandersen, @oolon, @hyperdeath128k, @saramayhew (whose account is still suspended), & one other person in which Rich S jokes that Aratina wants Sara Mayhew dead (related to someone trying to delete Sara Mayhew’s wikipedia page, whether that’s true or also a joke); @aratina has retweeted it:

(The exchange went on w/ someone asking whether Rich S was using hyperbole or his usual, “being full of shit”, with Aratina assuring it was the latter.)

It’s like a soap opera. So hard to follow who’s talking to, versus shunning, who – and why. And whether or not it’s okay to make jokes about women & death – turns out that may depend who the joke is about, and/or what the joke-maker’s intent is assumed to be. Quelle surprise.

Phil_Giordana_FCD:

I think a worst crime is that it wasn’t even funny. I’m ok with lots of bullshit as long as it’s funny.

Gumby:

Agree with that. I got the reference instantly, but FFS that movie is like twenty years old. The lambs stopped screaming a long time ago.

I haven’t been following the Pit too closely lately – has it been established that @Lazy_Savant is even a Pitter? Maybe I’m biased but my instincts say no. Of course, the baboons will insist he is either way, but I was just curious.

Dick Strawkins:

He almost certainly wasn’t a pitter since pitters are immediately placed at level 2 of the blockbot.
@Lazy_Savant was, at least before he made that Silenc of the Lambs joke, followed by aratina cage on twitter.
I think he has only now been added to the blockbot – level 2.

But if it was a real threat of murder (rather than a lame joke – that Svan spotted and immediately grabbed to use as pity fodder) you would expect him to be on level one, wouldn’t you?

Gumby:

I noticed that as well. Given the tendency for the baboons to go, well, apeshit over insults like these and pretend they are imminent death threats, it’s amazing he wasn’t placed at Level 1 no matter what. Zvan must be pissed at Oolio – How come other people’s death threats are placed at Level One and I only rate a Level Two? That’s not worth nearly as many persecution points!!! :D

Dick Strawkins:

For all the claims that Lazy Savant’s tweet was a death threat, it appears that the most shocked (shocked, I say!) of them knew from the outset that it was just a ‘Silence of the Lambs’ joke.

https://twitter.com/SpokesGay/status/398237314851155969

Funnily enough this makes it worse for Josh SpokesGay – since “SOTL was viciously transphobic”.

Service Dog:

Cheer up, Zvan, you’re thin!

At least: your skin.

Tribble:

Isn’t that a Silence of the Lambs reference? Which I take to be a dig made about Svan being fat, because the female victims were fat in order to have plenty of skin for skinning.

Also, who is Lazy Savant?

Last, since it becomes clear that he’s been blocked by Svan, et.al., how is it that they saw the tweet he made to one person without their obsessively following everything he says/does on twitter? At what point do they realize we can all see how obsessed they are with their drama-blogging lifestyle? And that all but the most dense will eventually catch-on and move away from the drama-filled A+ movement?

I’ve never seen such a group of idiots with so little shame in my life. They go out of their way to be insulted. To find those insults. To fill themselves, on a daily basis, with reinforcements to their perceived victim-hood like a dog eating its vomit.

Dick Strawkins:

It is obvious to everyone that it’s a fat joke about Svan.
But obsessively trawling twitter to dredge up fat jokes about yourself doesn’t quite carry the victim cred that can be generated by a single death threat, which is why they are playing up that rather tenuous angle of the tweet.

Southern:

So…

Making a distasteful Silence of the Lambs’s reference = bad, awful, death threat.

Making a distasteful Cards Against Humanity reference = good fun.

Roger that. So I’ll do a CAH reference in regards to Svan, right now! The rules:

1) I’ll use the cards from the actual game (from http://www.cardsagainsthumanity.com/pdf … inGame.pdf)
2) I’ll chose a black card with a feminine reference on it, and change it “Stephania Svan”. The remainder text will not be modified.
3) I’ll then choose 10 (ten) white cards with the answers and you guys choose the best one. Again, no changing on the text from the actual game cards.

Black card:
“Maybe she Stephany Svan’s born with it. Maybe it’s _______________”

White card 1:
“Child abuse.”

White card 2:
“Penis envy.”

White card 3:
“Smegma.”

White card 4:
“The placenta.”

White card 5:
“Obesity.”

White card 6:
“Leprosy.”

White card 7:
“Menstrual rage.”

White card 8:
“A brain tumor.”

White card 9:
“Man meat.”

White card 10:
“Being fat and stupid.”

I hope she doesn’t mind, because, according to BRAYTON (2013):

It’s OK. It’s a quote from Cards Against Humanity. The whole point is to be horrible.

Have a nice day, Stephie.

Hey, congratulations. You’ve just taken that something play-horrible and turned it into real-horrible by using trying to turn it into a weapon against another human being, once again demonstrating that the very concept of consent is beyond you. Go, you!

Lusoma:

Pixellated bukkake
Elf cum

Jan Steen:

In addition, since when is a random Twitter user who doesn’t even post on the ‘Pit “one of the leaders of that group”? The ‘Pit doesn’t have and doesn’t need leaders.

Tribble:

This is why I find concern trolling in the movement (especially the Pit) to be so pointless when it comes to dealing with Skepchick/FTB criticisms made by us or others. The only appropriate course of actoin for us is to ‘shut up’ and/or ‘go die in a fire’ depending on the asshole-level of the FTB/Skepchick poster.

A guy makes a fat joke and the ‘ever searching for drama’ FTB crowd turns it into a death threat and the ‘Pit is linked. Despite the fact that the ‘Pit had nothing to do with it and it’s a FAT JOKE.

Sulman:

Although most of the people concerned are block-botted, don’t forget that the usual lickspittles patrol twitter.

free thoughtpolice:

I felt so bad for Stephanie getting that threat that felt I needed to comment on the “How was your day?” thread.
I expect it will make it out of moderation any minute now, but if not, here it is:

abear says:
November 8, 2013 at 3:23 pm

Stephanie: What a horrible thing for that monster to say. You must be terrified.
Several months ago I had a criminal threat made to me over the internet that emphasized it WOULD be carried out!
It was so worrisome that I have since been diagnosed with PTSD.

Tethys

7 February 2013 at 3:24 pm (UTC -6)

You are not Paul.

And this is THUNDERDOME!!

*Breaks two liquor bottles and brandishes the jagged necks.*

I WILL cut you abear, you stupid fucking troll.

I am very sorry for your trauma, whatever your name is. I hope that PZ took immediate steps when you brought this to his attention to make sure no broken bottles would actually be allowed in the Thunderdome, his open comment thread.

And that’s where things stand at the moment. So, that should answer that question.

Comments

  1. says

    Renee is quite wrong about Twitter searches, anyway. Twitter searches do not respect our accounts’ private block lists (the ones we make individually). So, anyone you have blocked who makes a tweet that matches the search terms or tag will be shown to you. Twitter really ought to change that, but they haven’t.

  2. says

    Oh, deary me. I was so concerned that I quickly opened up my site control panel and made absolutely sure that abear was solidly banned. Don’t worry about him, he’s safe now.

  3. carlie says

    Holy fuck, how do they not see how horrible they were?

    And yes, in fact, that comment was jumped on immediately and Tethys apologized and recanted it within a very short time frame. So.

  4. Wowbagger, Designated Snarker says

    Once again the standout feature of these comments the dishonest elision of the facts: that the tweet in question is only one of so very many; that it was aimed toward a known, non-pseudonymous person; and that that person is someone who’s speaking out against bullying, silencing, misogyny and bigotry in the community.

    In other words, despite the fact they know exactly why this pathetic, creepy, cowardly, sick fuck wrote what he wrote – because he, like his pals, want you scared off so you stop calling out their behaviour and go back to just criticising the religious – they lie and pretend it’s everything but that, and using the standard ‘pit techniques of false equivalence and tu quoque to justify it..

  5. says

    Also, “He retweeted a tweet from one of our own!!! ARGLEBLAGRERLE!!!”
    And I did know it was a Silence of the Lambs reference right off the bat, but it’s also harassment on LazySavant’s part (he’s not as ignorant about Twitter as Renee–don’t let him get away with pretending it was harmless). I did report that tweet of his, and I encourage everyone else to do so.

  6. Wowbagger, Designated Snarker says

    Jason Thibeault wrote:

    IT’S OKAY TO SAY HORRIBLE THINGS ABOUT STEPHANIE ZVAN BECAUSE SOMEONE ONCE SAID SOMETHING SHITTY AT PHARYNGULA.

    Yeah. They really think this.

    Some of them aren’t bright enough to realise this isn’t true, but that isn’t the case for all of them; I have no doubt more than a few know exactly what they’re doing – engaging in a co-ordinated program of harassment with the intent of silencing those critical of them – and are happy to hide behind the lie.

  7. A. Noyd says

    Jason Thibeault (#6)

    IT’S OKAY TO SAY HORRIBLE THINGS ABOUT STEPHANIE ZVAN BECAUSE SOMEONE ONCE SAID SOMETHING SHITTY AT PHARYNGULA.

    Which is one expression of the anti-SJ types’ belief that unless the person complaining and all of the others on that person’s “side” are perfectly consistent in never doing what’s being called out (including anything superficially similar in the simple mind of the anti-SJ), that person has no right to complain. Shitbags like abear unwittingly make a very strong case for atheists being the complete moral nihilists that religious people assume we must be without a god to make the rules.

  8. says

    Wowbagger@8: Yes. I think you’re right. I do think they’re just using it as an excuse for the most part. And I further think that some weak-minded individuals are entirely taken in by that lie.

    And I say “weak-minded” because the closest thing they have to tu quoque is pointing to someone ELSE. It’s not even “tu”, it’s “aliud quoque”.

    (I think. I don’t know from Latin.)

  9. Al Dente says

    All we’re missing now is some ‘pitter telling us how the Slymepit is a harmless debating society where topics ranging from how to make a perfect mint julep to whether Garry Kasparov or Anatoly Karpov are the best chess players ever and they occasionally satirize some feminists for going a bit too far with their feminism.

  10. says

    I’m still working my way through the Storified vileness, but these people are totally right. No law enforcement agency would ever see a movie reference made online as a serious threat worthy of criminal charges. It was such an obvious joke that they made at your expense behind your back, and if you weren’t so vain as to search your own name which obviously no one does (except silly flighty women with their vanity and all) you never would have known about it.

    Sarcasm, obviously, but the link is weirdly relevant to the situation.

    Frankly, it’d be nice to see the FBI knocking on some of these dumbshits’ doors. It might cause them to grow up out of this asinine middle school bully mentality.

    Sorry you have to put up with this, Stephanie. I always thought that this nonsense would stop when we all graduated from high school, but apparently some people never get past that teenage pettiness.

  11. sully says

    Well, the Slymepit is a harmless debating society where topics ranging from how to make a perfect mint julep to whether Garry Kasparov or Anatoly Karpov are the best chess players ever and we occasionally satirize some feminists for going a bit too far with their feminism.

    A couple of things:

    i) If you believe there is a legimitate threat, report it to the authorities.
    ii) It was a hurtful remark, and in questionable taste; plenty of people have alluded to as much; to Stephanie’s credit, she’s even quoted some.
    iii) Don’t vanity search. Really.

    If anyone has questions intended for the Slymepit, just ask them. There is nothing stopping you.

    There’s no conspiracy. The originator of the tweet in question isn’t even a member there. Engage with people. There is little reason not to.

  12. sully says

    Well, disagreement is one thing, and for sure I don’t think that will change. I’d sooner keep that polite, personally. I appreciate the effort, either way.

  13. A. Noyd says

    Engage with people who go out of their way to spit in your face. Sure, you’ll come away saliva-beslimed and possibly infected with new diseases, and I’m not really sure what overall value the spitters provide with their wanton jettisoning of bodily fluids with you as the target, but at least you’ll be filled with the satisfaction of having engaged because engagement is good for its own sake!

    Don’t want to be spit on? Think that not getting spit on would enhance communication? How dare you stifle the free expression of the spitters! Clearly, you have no interest in a real engagement. Shameful, shameful, shameful.

  14. says

    Now, Aratina, speaking is good. If he hadn’t spoken, who would know that it’s my responsibility to keep up on my husband’s stuff in such a way that doesn’t impede anyone’s ability to say they’ll flay me at will?

  15. Wowbagger, Designated Snarker says

    Any ‘pitter claiming to want genuinely want dialogue is a lying sack of shit. Oh, sure, they will claim to want to ‘debate’ – because they benefit from the status quo, which remains in place while any ‘debate’ takes place; and because they can (dishonestly) point to this faux reasonableness and claim it’s effort on their parts.

    It’s tantamount to creationists agreeing to ‘debate’ evolution while maintaining ‘teach both sides’ textbooks remain in classrooms.

  16. says

    Now, Aratina, speaking is good. If he hadn’t spoken, who would know that it’s my responsibility to keep up on my husband’s stuff in such a way that doesn’t impede anyone’s ability to say they’ll flay me at will?

    Such useful advice. I love how they think they can tell you what to do, as if they have any moral credibility at all.

  17. hjhornbeck says

    sully @14:

    Well, the Slymepit is a harmless debating society where topics ranging from how to make a perfect mint julep to whether Garry Kasparov or Anatoly Karpov are the best chess players ever and we occasionally satirize some feminists for going a bit too far with their feminism.

    It’s also where they debate if their harassment is driving someone to suicide, in between all that. It’s kind of like the Bible; if you ignore the bad and contradictory stuff, it’s actually pretty nifty and totally worth reading.

    Don’t vanity search. Really.

    Ah, so Zvan should have no idea what people are saying about her. She should just let people spread lies and hate in a public forum, and make no attempt to counter or call them out. Good plan, good plan.

  18. sully says

    Mr. Noyd, nobody would spit in your face if you didn’t spit in theirs. It isn’t a bar fight.

    Stephanie, to answer your question, you don’t need me or anyone else to tell you how you conduct your business; my suggestion to avoid vanity searches is from long experience of them not always being pleasant, especially for tier one personalities in whatever you want to call this strange situation. You don’t deserve the harsh words, but that doesn’t mean they’re not going to be there.

  19. Great American Satan says

    These ass munches are in a community founded on the freedom to commit hate speech – oh, no, not hate speech. Just a 24-7 campaign of gendered slurs and “criticism” aimed at someone who was already receiving rape and death threats from persons sympathetic to their side. It’s similar to yelling fuck you n*gger 24-7 at someone after a cross was burned on their lawn, but TOTALLY HARMLESS!

    They are swimming in the worst side of human nature every time their fingers touch keyboard. Any pretense they give a living fuck about anything and anyone other than their own cocks &/or position in a hierarchy of unethical emotional sadists is utter horseshit.

    For every argument, there are two sides that are equally valid and the truth is somewhere in the middle perhaps, amirite? AMIRITE? (/sarcasms)

  20. shari says

    oh, yes, the one vexed about ‘supplying too much ammunition’.

    Tell me, when they level up from poo-flinging (which they do with enthusiasm on their side)….

    is there some useful level of activity they will graduate to? Or are they just the ‘pits eternal poo-handed peanut gallery?

    I’ve followed some links you’ve posted and…..I guess I’ve just never seen any intelligent life there.

    I could be wrong, of course. Dropped in on the wrong day of the week 3 or 4 times.

    But I did see a lot of determined poo flinging.

    if there is intellectual discourse (as has been firmly stated) it’s awful hard to spot under all that…..glop.

    really amazingly brave of them to harass real people from behind their handles and ‘nyms. Highly Brave-Hero-esque….

  21. hjhornbeck says

    Zvan @20:

    Oh, also, that’s the pitter commenting there as Sulman.

    Oh really? If that’s true, sully, do you think you are encouraging dialog by calling people “lickspittle?” You might want to re-think your approach, if you’re looking for debate. Focus on the arguments, instead of inventing funny names.

  22. Great American Satan says

    “Just a fat joke” is a pretty loathsome defense, especially since the substance of the joke is about total dehumanization unto death. Hm, random google result about the relationship between being fat and thinking about death: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/121972.php … Yes, “just a fat joke,” totally harmless… *hurk*

    These asshats push every button in a guy with their utter disregard for human lives, and when someone like Tethys finally blows up a little and gives a fraction of the evil back that these guys put out, they crow about it like, “oh, see, they’re so wicked and evil. Two sides!” I, like Tethys, find it extremely difficult to refrain from using the language of violence with these creeps. And so I will stop talking now.

  23. A. Noyd says

    hjhornbeck (#23)

    Ah, so Zvan should have no idea what people are saying about her. She should just let people spread lies and hate in a public forum, and make no attempt to counter or call them out.

    Yes, and it’s always better when you get blindsided by people you work with on a professional basis bringing it up after they searched you. Actually knowing what they’re talking about and being able to name it for the defamation it is will just make them suspicious.

  24. says

    The slymepit has nothing of worth. There is no conversation or social interaction there that is worth being in cultural proximity to people like that. Literally every time I have asked someone to provide me links to justify the claims that somehow this place was just as bad or worse I have been completely disappointed. It’s astounding how these folks can turn assertions to hyperbolic lies of the most ridiculous sort. But if all you have is lies than of course you need the textual equivalent of volume.

    Visitors from the slime pit, would you remain silent as someone in your community was verbally harassing and yelling out racial epithets at a emotionally beaten down racial minority? Would you remain silent if someone in your community was verbally harassing and terrorizing a person with autism or some other mental disability?

    Do you even care about the sort of world you live in or does the pit already represent that? Those comments and tweets are utterly indefensible. It simply does not matter if humor was the goal, or if they think that someone somewhere else did something they think is equivalent.

    They are INDEFENSIBLE. If I am wrong I challenge you to quote the comments that Stephanie provided and explain specifically they why are acceptable without referencing something that someone else did. They should be able to stand on their own if they are really fine.

    Anything else is juvenile tit for tat morality fitting for a preteen.

  25. A. Noyd says

    sully (#24)

    Mr. Noyd, nobody would spit in your face if you didn’t spit in theirs. It isn’t a bar fight.

    Apparently it’s a magical fight started by two people who, without provocation, randomly decided to spit in one another’s face at the same time, thereby kicking off an unending spitting-feud! Also, saying things like “guys, don’t do that” is an offense equal to saying a woman deserve to be raped for asking not to be cornered and hit on in elevators. And so on and so forth for any of the hundreds of false equivalences you dipshits like to draw about how the socially disadvantaged asking for respect is morally the same as the privileged taking pains to abuse and denigrate them.

    By the way? It’s impolite to assume I’m a “Mr.” A major part of the problem with you pitstains (and anti-SJ types in general) is you want to be the sole arbiters of what is and isn’t polite in an exchange. That’s not now politeness works among social equals. Politeness works first and foremost by having enough respect for the person you’re engaging with that you honor their standards of polite conduct (like not assuming their gender or not acting like defamation and harassment are a natural phenomenon akin to tidal waves). You can ask the same for yourself if you like, but only in return. Hell, most of you fuckers don’t even try to follow the rules you would impose on the targets of your contempt.

  26. Anthony K says

    Abear believes PZ called him a Marc Lepine. He inspects his closet before bed in case Liberals are hiding in it to steal his soul via POLITICAL CORRECTNESS while he sleeps.

  27. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Of course Tethys walked that comment back and AFAIK, has not said anything similar since. But those lying scumstains at the Pit still bring it up as if it has any significance.
    Meanwhile, they and their allies have apologized for…?
    Oh wait, freedom of speech means they can say anything their black hearts desire, no matter how hurtful, hateful, or misogynistic.

  28. Anthony K says

    But those lying scumstains at the Pit still bring it up as if it has any significance.

    Words are just words! The only real coercion is through government force! Everything is satire!

    Except for words like “Michael Shermer is a rapist”. Words have meanings then. Terrible, awful, tyrannical, freedom-eating meanings.

  29. hjhornbeck says

    sully @24:

    my suggestion to avoid vanity searches is from long experience of them not always being pleasant, especially for tier one personalities in whatever you want to call this strange situation.

    [raises hand]
    What’s a “tier one personality?” Because my Googling comes up with this:

    SAD/SOG teams were key in working with JSOC and tracking high value targets (HVT), known as “Tier One Personalities”. Their efforts, working under extremely dangerous conditions with little to no support, led to several very successful joint JSOC/CIA operations.

    and this (spammy-looking site, so no link):

    Personality disorder (PD) is the name given to a complex range of longstanding and severe emotional problems that impact on people’s lives and how they relate to others.Tier 1is the pre-therapy option group.

    So are you implying Stephanie Zvan is a high-value target, deserving careful monitoring in dangerous territory by the SlymePit? Or that she suffers from severe emotional problems? Or maybe the SlymePit are the HVT or suffering from issues?

    “Strange situation,” indeed.

  30. maudell says

    What’s with the Myra Hindley profile pictures? Did they change it along with the ‘Stephanie haz a sad’ name to add to the threat? I guess real life serial killer/rapist impersonations (with real life victims still alive) are all the rage among sociopaths.

  31. says

    Tier one personality? I hope that gets expanded on.

    The closest I can come up with is that because Ms. Svan actually tries to have an opinion out there she should expect abuse, or that she is some how a “high ranking person” over here.

    Because she can’t just be a blogger talking about ways that she should not be treated.

  32. pensnest says

    Anyone who uses Myra Hindley’s image as a personal avatar has automatically and without appeal lost the argument. Revolting people.

  33. Nick Gotts says

    It was a hurtful remark, and in questionable taste – sully

    Talking about flaying a specific, named person and wearing their skin is in “questionable” taste, eh? That you see it as “questionable” and not “vile”, sully, tells us all we need to know about you.

  34. says

    “Don’t vanity search” is kind of the Internet equivalent of “don’t go asking about what rumors there are about you,” or “you may have heard that someone wrote something about you in the bathroom stall, but it’s best not to look at it.” It’s as if these shitstains don’t understand that other people might Google someone, or that someone has a vested interest in knowing what their online reputation is like.

    Here’s a crazy notion: how about you don’t insult people behind their backs? What provoked Lazy Savant’s tasteless insult? What provoked the disgusting responses? What of value did they add to the world? Seriously, is anything gained from abusing a person in public? Do you shitbags spend your time offline ragging on the unpopular people from your high school classes still? Are your lives so sad and empty that you have literally nothing else to talk about but how overweight people you don’t know who have done literally nothing to you are, and what movie-inspired atrocities you’d like to commit against them?

    Instead of pretending like this shit is some force of nature that’s just going to happen oh well best not to dwell on it or go looking for it or anything and it’s your own fault for searching your last name because honestly who does that sort of thing, maybe you should ask what possible value this kind of disgusting, insulting, demeaning, sophomoric conversation has to anyone. What purpose is served by “hurr hurr this pursun be fat hurr hurr”?

    Beyond making your lot look like the most easily entertained group of vicious imbeciles this side of a high school locker room, I mean.

  35. Anthony K says

    If Stephanie is the one doing ‘vanity searches’, how come the entire Slymepit Deniability Rapid Response team is aware of this? How come every one of these losers has a perspective on this? Don’t these fuckers have anything better to do than google whether or not the Slymepit is getting a fair shake?

    And I see the scourge of cleft palate must have been eradicated for Renee Hendricks to be commenting. She’s such a focussed world-changer, after all.

  36. says

    Anthony: Right, “If the average FtB “fan” doesn’t at least check out the ‘pit once in a while, I’ll eat my goddamn hat”–but they’re obsessively reading FtB for any “drama.”

    Also, from the annals of hypocrisy, I love the “no one from the ‘pit had anything to do with it except the at least two people commenting in this thread who joined in and cheered on the guy who did it, but this thing that a commenter said and walked back on a different blog on the network means that Stephanie deserves whatever we send her way.”

    Can dish it out but can’t take it? These dipshits only ever achieve self-awareness by accident.

  37. sully says

    Brony,

    Tier one personality? I hope that gets expanded on.

    There isn’t much to add – there’s no subtext. Well-known or controversial figures can find negative things written about them, should they care to look.

  38. Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! says

    Brony:
    Have the Pitters *ever* denounced any of the vile things they or their allies have said? Given how much they support the right to say anything at anytime to anyone, I would guess no. I really do not get them. How did they turn out to be such horrible people?

  39. hjhornbeck says

    Pteryxx @42:

    I think the Myra Hindley reference is a targeted attempt at triggering Stephanie and other survivors

    Nah. I think it was partly a barometer of how much influence Tony Parsehole has in the ‘Pit, and the ‘Pit over us, and partly an attempt to send us all on a snipe hunt. Maybe a secret knock at Caine, too, but that’s stretching things.

    I don’t think Parsehole’s put that much thought into it.

  40. hjhornbeck says

    Tony! The Immorally Inferior Queer Shoop! @46:

    I really do not get them. How did they turn out to be such horrible people?

    Simple, they’ve gamified hatred.

    Human beings are social creatures. We get a kick out of being the centre of attention, or of poking at people higher up in the social hierarchy. Combine that with the thrill of breaking taboos, and you can build a reward system around spreading hatred.

    1. Post extreme stuff.
    2. Get patted on the back for posting extreme stuff.
    3. Earn self-esteem points!

    or

    1. Post extreme stuff.
    2. Be called out for posting extreme stuff.
    3. Earn self-esteem points!

    or

    1. Post extreme stuff.
    2. Be called out for posting extreme stuff.
    3. Earn self-esteem points!
    4. Ask your friends to alter their online appearance according to your whims.
    5. Double points!
    6. Have that noticed by the target of your extreme stuff.
    7. Triple points!

    Ever played a game long enough that it started to warp your perception of reality? Then you know what it’s like to be a longtime SlymePit member.

  41. Anthony K says

    “If the average FtB “fan” doesn’t at least check out the ‘pit once in a while, I’ll eat my goddamn hat”

    Somebody better start preparing the remoulade, because I’ve gone to the ‘pit exactly twice, and in one of those cases only because I’d been alerted to Reap Paden’s attempted doxxing of me there.

    They seriously overestimate their own relevance.

    Besides, the current argument for why the poor, poor ‘pit is so maligned is that we don’t know anything about it other than scary stories told around the fire at camp, and that if we really looked into it, we’d know that it’s just the super-awesomest, funniest place where they discuss all sorts of neat and wonderful things. feralandproud must have missed the latest communiqué from ‘Pit Meme Central. Bet he’s doing his TPS reports all wrong too.

  42. says

    Tom @43 -

    “Don’t vanity search” is kind of the Internet equivalent of “don’t go asking about what rumors there are about you,” or “you may have heard that someone wrote something about you in the bathroom stall, but it’s best not to look at it.” It’s as if these shitstains don’t understand that other people might Google someone, or that someone has a vested interest in knowing what their online reputation is like.

    Really. Over the past few days a guy I don’t know has been emailing me with advice and information about the pit and my dealings with same. The guy became acquainted with the pit only a few days ago, but somehow he knows all about it and needs to set me straight. In his latest he told me that if I refuse to talk to the pitters they’re going to make fun of me, and he gets the impression I “really take that stuff personally.”

    Stop the presses. A group organizes around the project of making public written (and imaged) “fun of” real, named people, and the people in question for some strange reason “really take that stuff personally.” How very very odd.

  43. says

    Regardless as to whether targeted persons “really take that stuff personally”, that stuff is so stupid that it burns. And one does not need to be personally offended to note just how offensive and wrong such idiotic commentary is.

    The conspiracy theories thrown in there as well are so very… very.

  44. Martha says

    This is vile beyond belief. The very term “vanity search” in this context turns my stomach almost as much as some of the comments in this Storify and the preceding one.

    Documenting the hate is important, as it gives the apologists for the anti-misogynists much less cover. How anyone (oh, hello, Michael Nugent) can treat these people as reasonable and worthy of engaging in a discussion in which we can all learn something is beyond me. Yes, I would like to see more constructive dialogue between people with different opinions on a wide range of topics. Yes, it’s clear that an overemphasis on civility provides an unfair advantage to the status quo.

    But can we not insist on respect for basic humanity as a prerequisite to useful dialogue? Can we not demand that those who share the antifeminist views of the Slyme Pit publicly disavow this behavior? Why are these people not total pariahs?

    Stephanie, I am so very sorry you have to put up with this unconscionable behavior. And I would feel that way even if I didn’t have a great deal of admiration for what you do and how well you do it.

  45. hjhornbeck says

    F [is for failure to emerge] @52:

    Regardless as to whether targeted persons “really take that stuff personally”, that stuff is so stupid that it burns.

    As others have mentioned, there’s an odd denial of the self over at the ‘Pit. Their worth is judged by how others react to them, either within the ‘Pit or without. Their words are trivial (it’s just making fun, it’s satire, it’s just speech), but the words of others have grave importance (HOW DARE X SAY THAT, oh lookit Y being hypocritical in bashing me, Z totally didn’t mean that).

    I wonder if that contributes to the cycle of hate. They are small, frail, and helpless, and require others to assure them they matter. What happens when people don’t pay attention to them, though? They get desperate and try to draw that attention over by cranking things up, causing a gradual increasing of the hatred necessary to draw attention.

    Hmm.

    [PS: if you think I'm arguing in favor of ignoring the Slyme, you didn't read closely enough]

  46. splen says

    Human beings are social creatures. We get a kick out of being the centre of attention, or of poking at people higher up in the social hierarchy. Combine that with the thrill of breaking taboos, and you can build a reward system around spreading hatred.

    Also, its very easy to get validation from the pitters. Where Downfall parodies are still seen as something new and subversive.

  47. says

    @Martha:

    But can we not insist on respect for basic humanity as a prerequisite to useful dialogue? Can we not demand that those who share the antifeminist views of the Slyme Pit publicly disavow this behavior? Why are these people not total pariahs?

    Why would they be pariahs? Look at Sully’s comment at #46. These kinds of things just happen, a natural result of people being well-known or controversial. No one actually produces any of this content or says any of these disgusting things, abuse just spontaneously generates out of the fabric of the universe like virtual particles when a person reaches a certain threshold of notoriety. Oh sure, it’d be nice if something could be done about it, but you can’t halt this undirected force of nature, so the only thing to do is ignore it and shrug.

    It’d be funny if it weren’t so terrible.

  48. says

    “If the average FtB “fan” doesn’t at least check out the ‘pit once in a while, I’ll eat my goddamn hat”

    Add me to Anthony K’s approach, as while I did comment there and argue with them for a bit, after that I’ve ignored it completely. Apart from the odd link to a specific post of “interest”. Not missed a thing! Also it’s of great amusement to me that they are likely posting “messages” to me assuming I’m reading and talking about me and I’m totally ignoring them. The place is monotonous anyway – worked that out from a couple of months “joining” in. Just need to find a comment or post to “dissect” – pat themselves on the back at how intelligent they are while the “Baboons” are truly irrational dummies. Repeat until you get bored either reading it or joining in -> Stunning how some on there have found this interesting for years. Admittedly I didn’t properly join in but it bored me to death reading that crap very quickly! Although the conspiracy theories they’d inevitably come up with to explain the drama du jour were sometimes amusing in their 9/11 truther level of crackpot reaching.

  49. throwaway, never proofreads, every post a gamble says

    So yeah, Renee Hendricks had a thought about what to do every time an FTBer “rage blogs” after seeing the insults, threats and the usual harassment: charitable donations. (two links)

    She’s really trying to attach something noble to something so petty and disgusting as this. I’m not sure she understood what I meant by ‘irony’ either when I suggested she consider an anti-bullying organization.

    It’s a chance also to see compartmentalization at work. “We’re not mean/bullies/assholes, we were just insulting/threatening her for charity! It was for a good cause!” Feh.

  50. sc_7fcd816dc7d5c9e72c65516e9f1f590e says

    I have a reply for Anthony K -You used brownian as your facebook ID where you were listed under your real name you moron. I know it seems like it was an effort to figure it out cause you are a simpleton. The rest of the world is just wondering how you got to be so dumb. Was it nature or an accident? The fact you still don’t get it and are still bitching about it is pathetic shut up already. Isn’t there something more to your pitiful life you can talk about? Allow me to reply to any response you may have in advance– booo hoo whatever you just said hurt me greatly. Good job you showed me now go hug your mother. You’re a wimp and I find you both stupid and boring nothing you say does or means anything 5 seconds after you post it. At best you are fodder.
    Stephanie I’m surprised you are still playing this same high school crap on your blog. Really, are you ever going to progress? Your blog is like a TV soap opera, you can miss 6 months of it and when you come back it is in the exact same place.

  51. Anthony K says

    Isn’t there something more to your pitiful life you can talk about?

    Says the people who Google my facebook because their lives are so chock full of fulfilment. Anyway, if “[t]he rest of the world is just wondering how [I] got to be so dumb”, it seems like I’m kind of a big deal by your own admission, doesn’t it?

    Go back to photoshopping me.

    Oh, and Reap Paden attempted to dox me. It’s not an issue for me, but it shows how morally bereft the man is. If you have a problem with me saying that, call the police or whatever it is you people keep telling everyone to do. If it’s not a police matter, then stop worrying about it. It must be satire.

    (Gee, I wonder who performed a vanity search so that sc_7fcd816dc7d5c9e72c65516e9f1f590e would know to chime in here?)

  52. says

    I have a reply for Anthony K -You used brownian as your facebook ID where you were listed under your real name you moron.

    Pitters have whined about the alleged doxxing of people with even more obvious aliases. That a particular doxxing is easy doesn’t make it right. Leaving a car unlocked doesn’t make stealing from it okay. This is the sort of thing we call “victim blaming,” and I know you dumbfucks have problems understanding that, but do try to keep up.

    The fact you still don’t get it and are still bitching about it is pathetic shut up already.

    That’s hilarious from the group that can’t drop Rebecca Watson’s “guys don’t do that” video, or Greg Laden’s comment to Justin Griffiths, or the one time a Pharyngulite said “die in a fire” or any of the other ancient shit that you and your pals can’t get over. And yet, who’s always talking about people being “thin-skinned”? Oh right, it’s the group that went apeshit over there being a disrespectful image meme about DJ Grothe. Hypocrisy, much?

    You’re a wimp and I find you both stupid and boring nothing you say does or means anything 5 seconds after you post it. At best you are fodder.

    They only ever achieve self-awareness by accident.

    Stephanie I’m surprised you are still playing this same high school crap on your blog. Really, are you ever going to progress? Your blog is like a TV soap opera, you can miss 6 months of it and when you come back it is in the exact same place.

    It’s funny, because the post is all just highlighting the stupid sophomoric shit that your side has been posting. If it’s the same as it was 6 months ago, it’s because you and the Slymies haven’t progressed. God, can you really be this stupid?

  53. says

    Reap, I don’t know why I’m doing you this favor, but here goes: Saying, “My response will be the same no matter what you say to me”, is not actually considered a mark of rational discourse. It’s right up there with “I don’t care about your evidence” or “The last time someone pointed me here for a post like this was six months ago, and now they’ve done it again, so you must put up posts like this all the time.”

    Everyone else, yes, the person who can’t figure out user names is Reap.

  54. Anthony K says

    Pitters have whined about the alleged doxxing of people with even more obvious aliases.

    What’s more relevant is that he declared his intention to dox me when he did it, regardless of ease.
    Now that he’s obviously convinced himself it wasn’t a legitimate dox, he’s wishing everyone would just forget he did it.

    That’s hilarious from the group that can’t drop Rebecca Watson’s “guys don’t do that” video, or Greg Laden’s comment to Justin Griffiths, or the one time a Pharyngulite said “die in a fire” or any of the other ancient shit that you and your pals can’t get over.

    Exactly. Their slate is always wiped clean immediately after one of them does something despicable, though.

  55. Anthony K says

    Everyone else, yes, the person who can’t figure out user names is Reap.

    Obviously. Who else would vanity search for ‘Reap Paden’?

  56. Wowbagger, Designated Snarker says

    …or the one time a Pharyngulite said “die in a fire”…

    For the benefit of anyone who hasn’t heard the story: The last time this Pharyngulite said it, he got called out on it – by other regulars, by the way, not by any of the Slymepitters – and admitted it was the wrong thing to do and that I was an asshole for doing it. I have not said it again since and have even apologised to the person (Spectator) on a thread on Ophelia’s blog – an apology which she then accepted.

    So any ‘pitter still using that in their desperate false equivalence/tu quoque tapdance is demonstrably lying; feel free to provide them with the evidence.

  57. says

    @ Stephanie Zvan 39

    Broney, this is what Google gives me.

    That is disturbing. It’s hard to tell the real origins so for accuracy purposes we can’t assume that this is the source.

    Another example is the utterly dishonest “vanity search”. It’s obvious to me that you are actually engaging in strategic searches designed to understand the nature of the communities that produce the hate directed at you. There is a clear defensive purpose in knowing how this emotional garbage that is frothing about you gets directed. But they can’t allow themselves to impute any neutral or good intent to what you do because of the emotionally juvenile nature of the social environment (everything on a 1-10 scale is 1 or 10) so instead it’s “vanity searching”. These are simple people dependent on group tactics and mutual emotional reinforcement.

    @ sully 46

    There isn’t much to add – there’s no subtext. Well-known or controversial figures can find negative things written about them, should they care to look.

    I’m interested in the origin. I’m not claiming there is subtext. I can appreciate the general obvious meaning that Ms. Svan is a figure that is distinguished in certain ways, but terms have origins and uses subtle connotations. I want to know this one. You chose the word for a reason, and I want the origin and reason. If you just picked it up elsewhere and don’t know the what and where that is fair.

    @ Tony 47

    Have the Pitters *ever* denounced any of the vile things they or their allies have said? Given how much they support the right to say anything at anytime to anyone, I would guess no.

    I won’t say that there are no examples. I’m sure that some person over there has attempted it at some point but such a thing would undermine a major component of how they create social bonds over there. It comes down to general tendencies of the social dynamics. Just like you can find some examples of people here at FTB being callous and insulting, it’s not a general pattern that reaches the point of round-table disgust-bonding-sessions where they talk about how they would rather have sex with animals than FTB-posters. Such gets called out here.

    Over here at FTB I see detailed analyses of peoples comments and reasons about why a conclusion to a link to a quote is supported as having a particular context and meaning. Over there I see massive walls of assertions and emotional conclusions about quotes being push around as “just so” stories with no real evidence. I almost never get anyone to actually link something, quote it, and actually outline why the person they are quoting is wrong about something. It’s all feelings over there.

    I really do not get them. How did they turn out to be such horrible people?

    Others can tell the full story better. But I have not had the opportunity to offer my impressions so I might as well.

    TL;DR: they are people who feel that they should be as disgusting, nasty, and as emotionally overblown as they want, whenever they want, and still be taken seriously as skeptics to discuss issues with. They have a persecution complex and concentrate in a forum reinforcing each other in emotionally juvenile ways while engaging in behavior that actually runs counter to rational, logical, skeptical discourse.

    The context of the origins of the slymepit started in the “elevatorgate” situation where Rebecca Watson gave her opinion about guys making propositions in elevators. The actual opinion was really quite mild and obviously a valid thing for a person to feel, but the response to her giving that opinion was one of the most irrational and disproportionate things that I have ever witnessed on the internet. I was having to smack around fellow posters on the image board that I frequent about the utter ridiculousness of it all. In my opinion the whole thing can be summed up as a gigantic attempt to get a person to shut up about her opinion with overwhelming volume instead of reasoned discourse. Naturally any sort of emotional reaction needs a gossip ground and “infinite threads” over at Abby Smith’s ERV blog were one of these (queue pitter going on about “that was not all we were doing!” here).

    Now these threads were apparently about as nasty as the modern slymepit and this was in fact against the Scienceblogs terms of service (something I have never gotten a pitter to actually address, they just dance around it). So eventually the people running Scienceblogs had to actually enforce their rules and the threads got deleted. This was taken as a huge travesty of justice and violation of freedom of speech (origins of “freeze peach”) and these already emotionally simple and tribalistic b-tard equivalents went and started their own forum, the slymepit.

    So if you know anything about evolution and statistics you should be mentally framing this in terms of emotional frontloading and the founder effect. That community has feelings of persecution, and a desire to say whatever they want no matter how bad the effect on human communication, and a willingness to accept group harassment to suppress speech as actual basic values upon which it was founded. Sure they use the words “freedom of speech”, but they ignore the very real effects of human psychology on rampant emotional hyperstimulation with no self-control. Even in the US speech has limits for important reasons.

    To me it does not matter what else they do over there. The history and the emotionally toxic patterns of behavior are not something I want to be around. This is the only mind I have and I want it running in top form and don’t want implicit memory issues making me more of a monster.

  58. Forbidden Snowflake says

    1. That behavior is despicable and disgusting.
    2. The Slymers are not Buffalo Bill; they are Miggs.
    3. Point 2 does not diminish point 1.

  59. Anthony K says

    Forbidden Snowflake,

    While I understand your point, comparing the Slymepit to Multiple Miggs suggests a diversity of personality not evident amongst the ‘pitters.

    They’re generally right-wing authoritarian in behaviour, even if individually they consider themselves progressive.

  60. says

    As others have mentioned, there’s an odd denial of the self over at the ‘Pit. Their worth is judged by how others react to them, either within the ‘Pit or without. Their words are trivial (it’s just making fun, it’s satire, it’s just speech), but the words of others have grave importance (HOW DARE X SAY THAT, oh lookit Y being hypocritical in bashing me, Z totally didn’t mean that).

    It’s actually a cultural phenomenon that’s wide spread and I blame privilege and over-protective parents.
    Their child can do no wrong. There is always a reason, an excuse, somebody else responsible. It’s a missunderstanding at best*. Especially not their precious boy-child. And then they grow up into individuals like these. Never acting, always reacting (didn’t sully tell us? It’s all because somebody spit in their face first!)
    Also, It’s just a JOKE. Can’t you take a JOKE. Look how much I’m laughing it’s obviously funny.

    *Oh I totally didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to do my French homework during English class. You can’t possibly punish me for that!

  61. says

    @ Anthony K 69
    @Giliell 70

    They’re generally right-wing authoritarian in behaviour, even if individually they consider themselves progressive.

    It’s actually a cultural phenomenon that’s wide spread and I blame privilege and over-protective parents.
    Their child can do no wrong. There is always a reason, an excuse, somebody else responsible. It’s a missunderstanding at best*. Especially not their precious boy-child. And then they grow up into individuals like these. Never acting, always reacting (didn’t sully tell us? It’s all because somebody spit in their face first!)
    Also, It’s just a JOKE. Can’t you take a JOKE. Look how much I’m laughing it’s obviously funny.

    Tie these two together. What are things like for children in authoritarian households? Think about their role-models. Dad can do no wrong. What do you think Dad does when he makes a mistake? Does Dad actually respond to criticism? Can dad respond to criticism? Does he know how or was he ever shown? Do all mistakes criticisms get redirected and explained away?

    Authoritarianism is associated with a more fearful outlook of the world around you. So they not only over protect their children, but the propagate (especially in the boys) this inability to deal with criticism. I spent three years working as a substitute teacher while trying to learn to be a high school science teacher in Austin Texas. When I went to “those schools”* I saw again and again children with almost no ability to deal with criticism, or ability to actually admit or address wrongdoing on their part. Since I was a scientist I kept my skills sharp by looking for patterns as I was almost always an out-group to them (unfamiliar authority figure). This pattern of coming up with excuses and distractions to remove attention from their behavior? It’s very similar between the slymepit, disruptive and poorly behaving children used to acting in certain ways when criticized, and even political parties.

    (having been raised in a military authoritarian household helps with the observational background too)

    *There were clear socioeconomic patterns as well. This is another reason I am pissed at the government when it comes to economic issues because parents need the time and resources to be parents. All the research into society and the mind is useless if we don’t have a culture and country where it can be applied.

  62. Jackie teh kitteh cuddler says

    To be fair, little kids don’t seem to know the difference between not being wrong and just really not wanting to be wrong. We’re supposed to grow out of that phase.

  63. says

    You don’t deserve the harsh words, but that doesn’t mean they’re not going to be there.

    Yeah, the harsh words are just a force of nature, no one is ever responsible for any of them, they’re just there regardless of what anyone does, just like the weather, so if you’re hurt by them, it’s your fault for hearing them. You think someone else is at fault for saying them? That’s just crazy talk from professional victims, who need to have it drummed into their heads that they are responsible for staying away from trouble. (Don’t that lot say almost exactly the same thing about rape?)

    That’s one of the basic defining features of the Slymepit: pure relentless childish irresponsibility and willful ignorance.

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