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Oct 04 2013

The Case Against Female Self-Esteem, Part I

I recently received an email from reader and occasional commenter captainahags titled “Please take this idiot apart!” The post in question is by Matt Forney, a self-published “entrepreneur” who seems to have taken bragging “pick-up artists” seriously when they said there was money in all those poor, lonely guys on the internet. So last year he started up a blog to test the idea that you can publish any old crap, call it “game”, and make money. He’s already put out a “best of” book.

The post in question is a perfect example of “any old crap”. It’s whiny, contradictory, and backed up by fuck all. But here. Rather that tell you about it, let’s show you what flies in PUA land–with commentary, because it wasn’t the post that sent captainahags to me as much as the fact that Forney doesn’t allow critical comments on his blog.

I’m just gonna come out and say it: I love insecure women.

Boy, dude, that’s so brave. Your audience of insecure guys is going to turn around and eat you for making daring statements like that. We’ll put some flowers on your grave.

Whenever a girl I’m talking to brags about how she’s “confident” and “strong,” I can feel my dick deflating like a punctured tire. I’d still bang her, of course; a repellent personality doesn’t negate the fact that she has a slammin’ body. But a crucial part of the attraction is lost. I’d be less offended if she ripped a fart in my face.

Note that Forney doesn’t say he has had sex with strong, confident women. He simply would if he were given the opportunity. Any opportunity. We can further tell that this is a hypothetical because he hasn’t figured out that his limp dick would present him with a problem. What’s he going to do, just pleasure her? Not our little PUA.

The idea that women should have self-esteem or need it, beyond a low baseline to ensure they don’t commit suicide or become psycho stalkers, is one of the most disastrous social engineering experiments of the modern era. A woman with excessive confidence is like a man with a vagina. It’s an attribute that is at best superfluous and at worst prevents women from fulfilling their natural biological and social functions.

I’ve probably met one or two men with vaginas. They seem to get along just fine, though I haven’t been so nosy as to ask. Nor am I aware that they prevent women “from fulfilling their natural biological and social functions.” Oh, Forney means that the only analogy he could come up with is crap? Why doesn’t this surprise me.

In order for America to right itself, there needs to be a massive and concerted war on female self-esteem.

Yes, that would end the shutdown posthaste. Or maybe Forney means he wouldn’t have to travel outside the country for sex. I hear Denmark is nice.

From the moment they’re old enough to speak, girls in America are bombarded with propaganda that artificially boosts their self-esteem. They’re told that they’re shpecial and you-nique because they have an extra X chromosome. They’re told that they’re smart, that they can do anything, that they deserve respect merely for existing.

You’ll notice the entire lack of citations to back up any of this. That would be because anyone whose qualifications for opining on the topic consist of more than “I have a blog!” recognizes that:

  1. Boys receive the same messages, except for that one about chromosomes. Nobody tells kids how awesome their chromosomes are, except some weird-ass racists. And even they congratulate the parents.
  2. Girls are bombarded with messages that they can’t do various things, generally those that result in high-paying jobs. The programs that Forney complains about here are designed to combat those messages.
  3. Everybody deserves some respect for just existing. Of course, it’s possible to lose that by, say, writing crappy blog posts that expose your complete inability to make a reasoned argument.

They’re encouraged to derive self-worth not from their inherent feminine nature but from their college degree, their job or the other illusory trappings of achievement in a man’s world.

As it turns out, self-worth is not the only measure of worth at stake here. When women’s education and earning power are increased, their health and the health of their partners and children improves. Their communities (yes, even the men) experience less poverty. Educated women hold more political power.

Of course, all of this takes a back seat to Forney and his limp dick.

Combine this with the white-knighting tendencies of fathers and the sexual attention that attractive girls already get from puberty forward and you have a complete social meltdown in the making.

Mothers. So passive. So notorious for just letting anything happen to their kids. It’s as though Forney has never heard of the concept of controls, has no idea that when he says something about one gender, he should maybe look over to see whether other genders do exactly the same thing. Or maybe he does, but telling us would spoil even this poor approximation of an argument.

Oh, you attractive girls. Shame on you for making Forney feel so insignificant. He’s so helpless around you he can’t even think straight. Why else would he think all that attention he’s forced on you since junior high is a boost to your self-esteem rather than blatant sexual harassment? Oh, right. There’s all that desperate wishing he does.

Here are my reasons why girls should be discouraged from being confident.

There are three “reasons” Forney gives. We’ll take those one by one in subsequent posts. I wouldn’t want anyone to have to read to much of this crap at one time.

30 comments

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  1. 1
    screechymonkey

    It’s no surprise that a man who realizes that no self-respecting woman will date him concludes that women’s self-respect is the enemy.

  2. 2
    Pen

    Unfortunately, there are insecure women around for these gits to prey on. And even more bizarre, confident women who see right through them and feel sorry enough for the poor fools to play along.

  3. 3
    Anthony K

    I am alpha hear me roar
    Be more submissive so I can score
    ‘Cause ‘gainst those betas I have no chance to contend
    My collar’s pop’d like Jersey Shore
    Fixed up my ride so I don’t look poor
    But insecurity is on what I do depend

    Oh yes, I am smart
    But I still hafta masturbate
    I have no heart
    Yet it’s my genius that they hate
    If I have to, I will do anything,
    I am weak
    (weak)
    I am desperate
    (desperate)
    I am alpha!

    With my sincerest apologies to Helen Reddy.

  4. 4
    Loqi

    Summary of Forney’s post:
    I prefer women be kept like livestock.

    Summary of my reaction:
    This man desperately wants to fuck farm animals.

  5. 5
    smrnda

    If a man admits that women having confidence is a problem, doesn’t he realize that he’s effectively saying that he’s pretty much a loser that no woman with self-esteem and options would waste any time with? You can’t sell yourself much shorter than that.

    On top of that, a lot of girls and women are smart, talented, and accomplish a lot.

  6. 6
    Al Dente

    Forney, just get a blowup doll. It’s all you need.

  7. 7
    SallyStrange

    LOL, I just saw his tweet to you… I had no idea of the context.

    Benevolent sexism doesn’t actually raise women’s self-esteem.

  8. 8
    Stephanie Zvan

    For reference on Sally’s comment: https://twitter.com/realmattforney/status/386301346271350784

    Oh, what an argument.

  9. 9
    Martha

    Lovely guy. Just lovely.

    The Helen Reddy parody made me laugh, Anthony K. I still remember the service in my childhood church in which they made all the guys sit in the last two rows and played the original. Ah, the 70s!

  10. 10
    smhll

    The idea that women should have self-esteem or need it, beyond a low baseline to ensure they don’t commit suicide or become psycho stalkers, is one of the most disastrous social engineering experiments of the modern era.

    I just want to barf on his shoes.

    Looking at his whole post, it reads as if he’d find it much more convenient if hot young women had remote controls and he could just turn them on and off at his convenience. What a problem it is that they are human beings with independent agency.

  11. 11
    Jessie

    I should have realised that Twitter stream was just whiny, libertarian, male-supremacists. Urgh.

    I never cease to be amazed at how many men discount the right to existence of women they don’t want to have sex with. Also, at how many think pointing out that they don’t want to have sex with you is devastating to you ‘cos that’s the only reason you exist, so telling you that will put you in your place.

    They really do feel threatened by the idea that giving women choices in life through financial independence will mean they never get to have sex. I actually feel a little bit sorry for these losers.

  12. 12
    Ani J. Sharmin

    I’m utterly disgusted by Forney’s post. It’s partly because of appalling misogyny like his that claim of feminism not being needed anymore are complete and utter nonsense. It’s completely ignorant and vile. If he needs women to be insecure to feel secure in himself, he’s the one with the problem.

    And I totally agree with the following part of your post especially.

    1. Boys receive the same messages, except for that one about chromosomes. Nobody tells kids how awesome their chromosomes are, except some weird-ass racists. And even they congratulate the parents.
    2. Girls are bombarded with messages that they can’t do various things, generally those that result in high-paying jobs. The programs that Forney complains about here are designed to combat those messages.
    3. Everybody deserves some respect for just existing. Of course, it’s possible to lose that by, say, writing crappy blog posts that expose your complete inability to make a reasoned argument.

    The whole thing by Forney and similarly-minded people is just pro-male-supremacy. The message of confidence and self-esteem that they already get are considered okay, but if girls and women get some positive messages, too, then that’s considered oppression of men.

    I admire your patience in actually responding to him.

    @Jessie (#11): Very much agree.

  13. 13
    Ani J. Sharmin

    Forney:

    Essentially, “confident” women are incapable of viewing men as human beings.

    Writes the person who doesn’t see women as human beings.

  14. 14
    medivh

    I read Matt Forney’s words, and all I can hear is Zapp Branigan’s guide to making love at a woman. It’s weird how little it takes to parody such a person.

  15. 15
    Anne Marie

    @medivh: Hah, that makes things slightly better. I hope Leela shows up and shows him what’s what.

  16. 16
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    I wouldn’t want anyone to have to read to much of this crap at one time.

    If something horrific happens, I’ll let you know, because I’m in the course of doing just that thing.

  17. 17
    S. Chan

    Apparenty Matt Forney makes a career out of trolling. That entire post was made up just to make people angry and drive traffic to his page.

  18. 18
    SallyStrange

    Apparenty Matt Forney makes a career out of trolling. That entire post was made up just to make people angry and drive traffic to his page.

    Thanks, we already knew he was a despicable misogynist asshole, though.

  19. 19
    John Sawatzky

    The worst part is how he handles comments. Although perhaps I was asking for it, I spend about an hour researching and writing an articulate comment debunking his statement that things would pretty much be the same if all females were to fired from their jobs some day. I did not insult him, but tried to remain as reasonable as I could.

    He then had the audacity of completely editing my well-spoken comment just to make fun of it all. So to clarify, the following was not at all what I wrote, but a supposed “paraphrase” that really isn’t a paraphrase at all, and just goes to show how ignorant a person he is.

    “The only women I can name who have important jobs are all politicians. In other words, they’re leeches who exist to tax us into oblivion, write new laws to restrict our freedom and send us abroad to die in pointless wars. I think I’ve got you there Matt!

    [CensorBot sez: You don't, actually. We've had one week of government shutdown, showing just how useless everyone who works for the government truly is.]”

    Seriously. He actually did that. He figured that just because about two thirds of the lists I gave were of politicians (albeit with the distinction of female political leaders in our country and female political leaders in other countries) the entire comment was therefore not even worth keeping around. It is as if he couldn’t stand the thought of having my non-hateful comment on his blog, so he decided to just delete it all instead. Remind me to never try to reason with an internet troll again…

  20. 20
    S. Chan

    I don’t think he’s got any opinions or his misogyny is even genuine. Matt trolls to make people angry, and he knows how to get people angry by making controversial statements. He could even write something anti semitic or random things just for shock value. I guess if there’s any consolation, I don’t think he’s serious about what he’s saying, because the purpose of trolling is to do anything to make people angry and start flame wars. It’s all attention seeking. And we’re giving it unknowingly.

  21. 21
    Jammers

    I think you completely misunderstand what he’s trying to say, so lost are you in your knee-jerk desire to take offense at anything you possibly can.

    1. Did it ever occur to you that he’s just trying to provoke some kind of response? Not that he necessarily believes this stuff, just that he wants to get some attention, and now you’ve drowned him in it, made him extremely popular, and given him exactly what you didn’t want to give him?

    2. Did it ever occur to you that some of the things he says make a LOT of sense?

    2a. What do YOU want out of life? Are you getting it?
    2b. What do the women you talk down about want out of life? Do you think they’re getting it?
    2c. You know what the purpose of life is, right? It’s to breed. So if the way you live your life doesn’t get you a chance to breed, or reduces the amount of children you can have, then those who are breeding more than you will be the ones who are the next step in human evolution.
    2d. Try to take off your rage-hat for a minute and really THINK about what you want and whether you have it or not. I’ll bet you don’t.

    3. Personally, I don’t think it’s a problem of too much self-esteem, so much as it is one of too much power and not enough sense of responsibility to use it properly. When did the Almighty come down and proclaim that your idea of how things should be is the right one? You look anywhere else in life – be it the Animal Kingdom or any other – and the rule of law is kill or be killed and outbreed everyone else. The occasional bouts of cooperation you see are simply one of many strategies employed by those who are outliving and outbreeding.

    4. Women are not men, and should not try to be. Men are not women, and should not try to be. It’s the womanly women and the manly men who are outbreeding everyone else. maybe you should try following your gut instead of what someone with a power trip agenda told you to think so as to keep them in power. Me, I want nothing from you except for you to think for yourself.

  22. 22
    Stephanie Zvan

    The irony, Jammers, is that you completely misunderstood what I’m actually saying. It’s that guys like you are so wrong in every detail that they’re unintentionally funny.

  23. 23
    Manda

    Whether he was doing this just to troll and to generate traffic to his site or not, the big problem I find with this behavior is that other men will find validation in his words. Most know that it is uncalled for to speak such misogynist tripe so casually in public, so they keep quiet, but as soon as they hear another person speak it in another setting, they feel more confident to believe this shit.

    I honestly found the comments that praised him more appalling than the article itself.

  24. 24
    Nick Gotts

    You know what the purpose of life is, right? It’s to breed. So if the way you live your life doesn’t get you a chance to breed, or reduces the amount of children you can have, then those who are breeding more than you will be the ones who are the next step in human evolution. – Jammers@21

    I’ll just respond to this particular piece of blithering nonsense, because it’s so common among dim bulbs who mistakenly think they understand the theory of evolution by natural selection. The thing is, Jammers, that theory is descriptive, not prescriptive: it explains a great deal about how organisms came to be as they are, but it does not give you or anyone else any instructions for how to behave, or what their purpose is r should be. You have to decide those things for yourself, Jammers: evolution isn’t going to do that for you, any more than God is.

    So if the way you live your life doesn’t get you a chance to breed, or reduces the amount of children you can have, then those who are breeding more than you will be the ones who are the next step in human evolution.

    So what? You may have nothing more worthwhile in your life than trying to maximize the number of your descendants, but most of us are not in that sad situation: we have personal relationships, ambitions, interests, causes, principles, hopes for the human future that do not reduce to making as much of it as possible contain copies of our own DNA. You? You’re massively inferior to a successfully breeding codfish or a queen ant, by your own criterion: they can easily produce millions of descendants during their own lifetime.

    One more thought. (I know, Jammers, I know, it’s hard for you to cope with more than one at a time, but try really hard, hmm?) Assuming we don’t manage to screw up our civilization over the next century or so, the “next step in human evolution” is likely to involve some combination of genetic engineering, cyborgization, nanotechnology, synthetic symbionts, artificial intelligence… So having lots of kids is quite likely not even going to achieve your pathetic goal of maximizing your genetic contribution to that step.

  25. 25
    Nick Gotts

    As for the idiots (including Jammers, natch) making the “point” that maybe Forney doesn’t believe the disgusting crud he’s spewing – again, so what? Maybe holocaust denialists and advocates of sex with children don’t really believe their lies. Toxic filth needs to be combated and refuted, those who are its targets deserve to be supported, and these things cannot be done by ignoring it: the standard you walk past is the standard you accept. The claim is that speaking out against it is “just giving trolls the attention they want”. Well, they get plenty of that from the scum who rush to support them; and if what they want is specifically hostile reaction, what will they do if they don’t get it? Up the ante: be more offensive, invade more online spaces with their scumbaggery. Have any of the numpties making this “point” noticed that frank, crude racism is less prevalent than it was a few decades ago? Do they think that was achieved by ignoring outbursts of that kind of filth?

  26. 26
    S. Chan

    Nick, that was a little uncalled for. Just because I believe Matt is just being a troll doesn’t mean we’re idiots. You’re doing exactly what trolls like Matt expects; instigating conflict with those who aren’t even the enemy or fights where there are none, and you just enacted Godwin’s Law and brought unnecessary comparisons.Matt and the Nazis are not the same thing – Matt makes people angry, the Nazis killed people. Meanwhile, modern day Ku Klux Klans are making daily hate posts on Stormfront.org. I’m sorry, but I wish I never saw Matt Forney’s post to begin with nor spoke my opinion if it’s going to contribute insults. I’m all the way in Southeast Asia and got other political and personal matters to deal with.

  27. 27
    Nick Gotts

    S. Chan,

    No, it was not in the least uncalled for. I’m sick to the back teeth of your kind of stupidity. It’s not because you believe Matt is trolling that I called you an idiot: it’s because you think that makes any difference. You’re apparently too stupid to grasp why I made the comparison with holocaust deniers (not with the actual 1930s-40s Nazis, dumcluck) so I’ll spell it out for you: do you think holocaust denial should be ignored, because those perpetrating it might just be doing it to make people angry? Do you? And you’re repeating the same witless nonsense yet again. I don’t give a shit whether angry response is what Matt wants. That kind of dreck has to be opposed whenever it is spewed out, whatever the motive. Can you get that through the concrete?

  28. 28
    anat

    Quoting Forney: “Whenever a girl I’m talking to brags about how she’s “confident” and “strong,” I can feel my dick deflating like a punctured tire.”

    There’s a good chance said women consider it a feature. Or would consider it so, once they learned of Forney’s opinions.

  29. 29
    Proud Tortoise

    My god, though, the guy is a complete ass. I would like to state that I am ashamed to share his basic genetic structure. My dogs say the same.

  30. 30
    Joanna Sugameli

    After reading this “article” on Forney’s website, I was so excited to read the comment section. Instead of seeing people tear his sexist rant apart, I saw “great article” or “I completely agree”. The next thing I noticed was a COMMENT POLICY where Forney lays down some rules for anyone wanting to comment on his…views…

    1. Personal attacks, flaming, trolling and other idiotic behavior is not allowed. Commenters who are repeatedly rude or belligerent will be banned from commenting, and potentially from visiting the site outright.

    2. I reserve the right to ban or censor any commenter for any reason, or no reason at all. This site is private property, and I don’t have to allow people I don’t care for to run amok, any more then a homeowner is obligated to let homeless people into his living room to talk shit.

    My paraphrased version is basically….”If i don’t like what you write, I’ll block you! If you don’t agree with me, I’ll delete you’re comments. why? because you’re stupid. OK?”

    Really proves the obvious point that Forney is severely lacking in the confidence department and is blaming it on woman who reject him.

  1. 31
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