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Jun 16 2013

For the Movement!

By now, there’s a good chance you’ve already heard a bit about Dave Silverman’s appearance on Vacula’s “Brave Hero” show last night. If you want to see how “Brave Hero” fans took what Dave had to say, there’s a transcript of the chat room available.

If you look at the transcript, you’ll find that they start well before the show, by listening to the interview I did with Dave for Atheists Talk a couple of weeks ago. I grabbed the relevant bits of transcript here. The punchline comes at the end.

ElizaSutton [Skep Tickle]: In the next hour, I’m going to listen to DS’s interview on Zvan’s show from 6/2/2013

Brave Hero Radio (Cohost) [Justin Vacula]: :o

Brave Hero Radio (Cohost): didn’t even know he was on there

ElizaSutton: http://mnatheists.org/news-and-media/podcast/867-dave-silverman.html

ElizaSutton: Pretty close to direct quotes: “It’s good to be hated by some people – by racists, homophobes, bigoted people…” “We never attack theists, we attack religion. The necessary reaction you’re going to get is hate…it’s a sign of success.”

ElizaSutton: More Dave S on 6/2: Zvan seems to pick up on DS’s comments about being hated as a sign of success. DS adds: “The hate is about equality…the hate is about chipping away at the Christian privilege that’s out there.”

ElizaSutton: DS: We’re about equality, religion doesn’t want equality, it wants to be elevated above others

Brave Hero Radio (Cohost): listening now

Brave Hero Radio (Cohost): listening to clip now

Parody Accountant: I swear Steph Zvan just said “I just had a fart in my throat” @ 18:40

ElizaSutton: FWIW, ads on MN Atheist radio all sound white, retail ads appeal to standard middle & upper class (fireplace inserts, restaurants, etc) and I THINK I just heard one that said “if you want to appeal to intelligent [atheists]…advertise w/ us”

ElizaSutton: Just before 29:00 SZ asks, athiests/humanists/etc, are we getting too saturated?  DS takes a big long breath, talks about markets & niches

ElizaSutton: DS: “If a group is needed it’ll form and if a group isn’t needed it’ll dissolve.  That’s why I do my best to help everyone.”  (Again, not necessarily a direct error-free quote)

ReapSowRadio [Reap Paden]: I have a sound bite where it sounds like she says “I have a nice cock”

ElizaSutton: LOL he says infighting & egos affects small groups (not large groups????)

ReapSowRadio: is he on sephanie zvan’s high school project she calls a radio show?

ElizaSutton: “we love Amanda here” (said about Amanda Kneif, by Zvan) – how often would a male staffer be referred to that way?  (I’m not saying it’s BAD, I’m saying it’s a casual manner in which people more often refer women than men, esp in jobs)

ElizaSutton: Jewelry ad.  Restaurant ad prominently featuring gluten-containing foods.

ReapSowRadio: Im going to Write a review of Atheists Talk…They asked me to!  On the website. I’ve listened to lots of their shows.

zenbabe: Grats Reap :)

ReapSowRadio: It s no big deal  really  anyone can do it :$

ElizaSutton: Reap – you serious?  “they” asked you to?  Woot!

ReapSowRadio: well the website aksed me to …that counts right?

ElizaSutton: LOL we’ll take it

LOL. Yeah.

We’ll take a radio show that does long-form interviews of activists, scientists, artists, and scholars, a show that supports a community of atheists and humanists, a show that a team of volunteers sinks a lot of time into, and we’ll have it reviewed by a guy who’s tickled that he has an audio clip that sort of makes it sound like I said something I didn’t say. Yeah, let’s encourage bad reviews for the lulz!

All because I work on the show.

If you wondered at all why Dave Silverman took such a strong stand against what’s going on with that crowd, there’s all the answer you need. Listen to a show with me talking to Dave Silverman about American Atheists and the general state of the atheist movement and feel moved to prevent other people from listening to the show. Because I work on the show. Because that’s how you make the movement better.

Yeah.

LOL.

16 comments

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  1. 1
    smhll

    The fart and cock mis-hearings and the general dismissiveness of your work and the odd nitpicking about the commercials make them look really deep and thoughtful (except not).

  2. 2
    Kels

    Wow. Just…wow. I took a good look at the chat transcript, and that shit’s TOXIC! It absolutely floors me that people can get their thoughts so twisted around like this, but I guess it does illustrate how people can be whipped into such a sustained frenzy that they support horrible things that have gone on at various points in history. Cults, authoritarian regimes, the recent wave of beheadings/attacks in various places, etc.

    Of course, the really amazing bit is where towards the end, someone hopes Silverman is reading because the chat shows how the pro-harassment side is rational and values independent thought. That’s Kirk Cameron level delusion, right there.

  3. 3
    oolon

    Wow what a great view into their thought processes during the interview…

    Abbie Smith shouting F— OFF DAVE SILVERMAN

    They really don’t get “guilt by association” do they? Even saying would Dave accept that argument from a theist! Well we do make that argument to theists – that they don’t call out extremism because of in-group preference. Same applies to the Slymepit except many are not just refusing to call it out but laughing and joking with those being total assholes.

    Then lots of deranged ranting about PZ liking tentacle rape porn due to a post from 2007… http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/11/13/no-dont-use-an-octopus-for-bik/ … Have a look you may be surprised to see no hentai or anything remotely like it. Seems PZ was not exaggerating about them having nothing but weak personal attacks and tu quoque when he turns up.

  4. 4
    Woo_Monster, Sniffer of Starfarts

    I read more from that comment transcript than was good for me. Their criticisms were so amazingly pathetic, I am almost at a loss for words. I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading, “PZ LOVES TENTACLE RAPE!!11!”. How much time and effort do these haters put into reading and bullshitting about FTB? Look, dipshits, however much time you put in thinking up these disingenuous attempts at gaslighting, it was all a waste. You are too fucking incompetent to accomplish anything other than making yourselves look like pitiful* shitheads. The stupidity fucking burns.

    *no pun intended.

  5. 5
    LeftSidePositive

    I get this weird sense that Eliza just doesn’t understand privilege **at all.** For all their whining that privilege apparently means to them that people’s opinions can be dismissed just because they are in the dominant group poor, oppressed white/straight/rich/educated/male underlings…they seem very happy to do EXACTLY that when it suits them. Note Eliza’s weird obsession with the demographics indicators of the ads. There is NO discussion from her about how the speakers or the radio show are wrong in their positions, being in any way marginalizing to individuals in different economic groups, anything! Here, this is a valid critique of privilege: “These radio hosts said poor people should just save their money better, and yet their show seems to be heavily funded by jewelry stores and luxury fireplace installers!” Note the difference between “You’re wrong, and that seems to be heavily influenced by your privileged outlook” versus “You’re privileged, and therefore wrong” or indeed “You’re not the most destitute, oppressed person in the world, so any injustices you deal with can’t possibly matter.”

    And I frankly don’t believe that “love” is not used to appreciate male friends and colleagues. How many people said they “love” Dave Silverman when he eviscertweeted Vacula? How many people “love” Tim Minchin or “love” a mentor or a particularly helpful/clever member of their staff, regardless of gender? Can anyone else attest whether this is applied in a gendered way in other contexts? Or is this like when the Pit tried to claim that PZ making a slightly off-color joke in a contextually appropriate way was, like, totally sexual harassment too!! (zomg)

  6. 6
    oolon

    @LSP, also Eliza’s half-arsed gotcha’s about “idiot = ableist” then someone else chiming in with “flaming = ableist”… All part of a bad faith argumentation tactic where they pretend to understand or believe in ableism being wrong or how privilege works then “expose” the hypocrisy of the “FfTB’ers” … Pretty pathetic as well as dishonest, why not stick to Slymey principles and argue for those rather than pretend otherwise.

  7. 7
    LeftSidePositive

    also Eliza’s half-arsed gotcha’s about “idiot = ableist”

    That’s even more ridiculous because there is robust and open debate on FTB about the applicability of ableism and the legitimacy of criticizing intelligence. For, example, my thoughts are at this comment and another one a few responses down.

    why not stick to Slymey principles and argue for those

    Hmmm…it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the quality of those Slymey principles, could it?!

  8. 8
    PZ Myers

    I checked my FtB blog posts to see how often I said I loved somebody, just out of curiosity and because it’s easy.

    I loved my father.

    I love Tom Harkin (admittedly, that was said sarcastically).

    I love my students.

    I love the Turks rebelling against the government.

    That’s it. I guess I don’t express love all that much. Sorry. And when I do, it doesn’t seem to be directed at individual women much.

  9. 9
    John-Henry Beck

    Ugh. I followed the link to the chat log and couldn’t just stop…so I actually read the whole thing. Without seeing the show some lacks context. But there’s still a whole lot of disgusting delusion and false equivalence in there. It’s hard to imagine just how some of those see the world, and what values they apply to it.

  10. 10
    hyperdeath

    My favourite Slyme Gotcha argument, was when one of them accused Surly Amy of transphobia, on account of a necklace bearing the words “it’s a trap”. To a normal person, this is a Star Wars reference, but to the Slymers it obviously refers to an obscure internet meme that denigrates transwomen.

  11. 11
    LeftSidePositive

    Or when Justicar tried to claim that “Slimepit” was used by FTB as a derogatory term for Abbie Smith’s vagina?

  12. 12
    oolon

    Or when Ophelia in a semi-private conversation with Aratina calls herself #stupidbitch ironically and they all swear blind to this day she was “calling” girl writes what that! Despite her immediately clarifying in the convo because as usual someone from the pit was monitoring her tweets for any tidbits and popped up with faux outrage.

  13. 13
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    To this day I was unaware that advertising for food with gluten was apparently the equivalent to giving out free samples of crack on a schoolyard…

  14. 14
    Hank_Says

    Erm. Wow.

    Y’know something? I’ve seen less hateful, less ridiculous and more coherent ranting from wingnut fundie creationists in threads about abortion and homosexuality. That these anti-feminist lackwits can get so frothed up about the relatively less-controversial subject of how to not treat other people like shit that they actually stop making sense tells me one thing in stark detail: they’re wrong. Not just innocently and excusably wrong; they’re malevolently wrong and for such terrible (likely unconsidered) reasons that they can’t even express their opposition clearly. Such is their consuming hatred, they can barely get across what it is they hate so much about the idea that women are human beings (however, we know all too well who they despise).

    So, please, yes: let’s widen the “schism chasm” (to quote Reap’s ham-fisted* keyboard-punching).

    Widen it so goddamned far that these idiotic, toxic arseholes are but specks on the horizon.

    __________________________________
    *I mean that literally. I see Reap hunched over his keyboard so enraged that he doesn’t even put down his lunch before pounding out one of his trademark incoherent brainfarts. Perhaps the reason he writes so terribly is a combination of debilitating rage and a greasy keyboard.

  15. 15
    Jadehawk

    My favourite Slyme Gotcha argument, was when one of them accused Surly Amy of transphobia, on account of a necklace bearing the words “it’s a trap”. To a normal person, this is a Star Wars reference, but to the Slymers it obviously refers to an obscure internet meme that denigrates transwomen.

    not having seen it, i suspect it’s actually another “but sometimes cunt doesn’t mean vagina” argument; because “it’s a trap” is both a transphobic meme and a star wars meme (and a star wars/physics joke), which is totally exactly like how cunt is sometimes a word for vagina that you insult women with, and sometimes it’s something else that’s not gendered.

  16. 16
    thetalkingstove

    When that bunch try and call out ‘transphobia’ its particularly annoying.

    It seems like its a common objection to feminism with. And sure, some rad fems are transphobic. But you can…y’know…just decide to be a feminist who isn’t transphobic.

    But the pitters don’t actually give the tiniest of fucks about trans people. It’s amazingly pathetic to see them scurrying to try and find things to hit FTB with, and then come up with things that contradict their own side.

    If ‘It’s a trap!’ was actually anti-trans, then shouldn’t their position be ‘free speech, it’s just a necklace, if you don’t report it to the authorities then it can’t be a big deal’?

    Gah.

  1. 17
    Listening » Butterflies and Wheels

    [...] has another excerpt that demonstrates their willingness to crap on any project at all as long as it’s one of [...]

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