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Oct 08 2012

That’s “Fucking *Effective* Bitch” to You

If you’ve been around here a while, you probably remember Emery Emery. If you watched the video, you got to see him work himself into a screaming high-blood-pressure attack. Over me.

Wendell: Stephanie has been outspoken against what she believes is not having the harassment handled properly.

Emery: Then I might ignore her fucking request too, Wendell. In fact, I might ignore it publicly.

Wendell: Then you’re going to make the situation worse if you do that.

Emery: Well, people like that can suck my fucking cock! It’s bullshit!

Well, now we’ve got someone new trying at full volume to pop a blood vessel. Over me. Meet Reap Paden.

On this podcast Reap talks about the latest fallout resulting from the A+ cult of hypocrisy involving Justin Vacula. Carl Finke from Post Rapture Looting and Brian Allen form ApartmentJ.com hang out to discuss the issue and during the last half of the show Flyingfree333   hangs out and talks about Polyamory and, as a separate issue, the failures of A+ as well as his exchange with Matt Dillahunty the day before he was treated like shit and banned from an A+ forum for simply disagreeing…under an alias account….big surprise there.

Or don’t. It really isn’t that important. The important thing is the froth, the noise, the red face and popping veins. The important thing is the utter lack of civility. The important thing is the rage. The important thing is that the rage is as unthinking as it is impotent.

That’s right. Impotent.

Why was Emery Emery raging? Because I had successfully pushed the process to have conferences and conventions take harassment seriously, and he didn’t want that to happen. I don’t know why. I’ve never bothered to speculate. It isn’t important.

Why is Reap Paden raging now? Because I have successfully pushed to keep someone who supports harassers and who himself harasses out of a position of power, and he didn’t want that to happen. I don’t know why. I’ve never bothered to speculate. It isn’t important.

The important thing is that I, and an awful lot of people like me willing to take action, have succeeded. Beyond that, I have succeeded to the point that people like Emery Emery and Reap Paden don’t have any recourse through any official means to change what we’ve done. All they can do is pretend that I did this alone and try to…yeah, I don’t know what they think they’re trying to accomplish by screaming into a microphone. I guess maybe just demanding what they want always worked for them before, and they’re just going to do more of that.

Maybe we shouldn’t tell them it won’t work anymore. Maybe we shouldn’t discourage their impotence.

Still, it’s important that we understand the truth. What we’re doing is working, and every spittle-flecked rage attack is a badge of honor. It means we accomplished something. It means we won.

Remember that.

39 comments

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  1. 1
    Kate Donovan

    Ack. The grammar *alone* in the Reap Paden pull-quote is giving me the fidgets.

  2. 2
    Argle Bargle

    Ranters gotta rant, especially if that’s all they can do.

  3. 3
    Adam Lee

    As I’ve said elsewhere, I’m glad to let these people talk. The harassment and the damage they do to people in this movement is awful, I’m not denying that, but they’re the best advertisement for the A+ cause we could possibly ask for.

    It’s the same rope-a-dope strategy that we’ve used to such great effect against the worst of the fundamentalists: let them speak, let them say exactly what’s on their minds, and then metaphorically turn to the crowd and say, “Now, who do you think is more reasonable? Us, or them?”

  4. 4
    jasonmerrill

    To be honest, I didn’t find them to be too upset, and only slightly offensive (of course I have no right not to be offended). However, I can say for a fact that they used words I wouldn’t have, and this was the first episode of their podcast I’ve listened to, and I won’t be listening to another based on the content of this one. Back to Atheist Experience, Godless Bitches, Reasonable Doubts, and the NEPA Freethought podcast ;)

  5. 5
    tonyinbatavia

    Well said, Stephanie. You are exactly right. Their insults and rages are meaningless white noise that will only harm themselves while achieving nothing of value. Meanwhile, worthy people like you (and Ophelia and and Greta and Jen M. and the Atheist Bitches and a slew of others) continue to make meaningful differences. This white, cis, privileged male appreciates all your efforts … and despises those asshats working against you.

  6. 6
    Jason Thibeault

    Is it hyperbolic of me to see these folks as the right-wing radio jockeys of our movement?

  7. 7
    shari

    has anyone yet offered the A+ ‘haters’ the “A-” moniker? (Atheism Minus Feminisim/Feminists, Minus civil discourse, minus moderators…). Because then their members wouldn’t be confused about who uses harrassment policies….and, i dunno.

    Might save the A+’ers some time, energy, and trouble….

    or not ;-)

  8. 8
    LeftSidePositive

    I missed what finally got “skep tickle” banned on A+ before Dillahunty decided to defend him, but I saw him being a very intentional troll, talking about how martyred he was going to be and deliberately pushing buttons and making people angry all so he could crow about how martyred he was. He was even continuing to do this on a thread where people were telling him they could see through his self-martyrdom! People bent over backwards to try to communicate with him and assume good faith, but he just kept burning those bridges (and accusing those people who were giving him useful advice of “telling him what to do”). So, if someone is going to say that this guy is “simply disagreeing” and that banning him after all this was “treating him like shit,” they’re basically saying we have to put up with every transparent troll from here to Tipperary!

    Shari, since the A+ haters are basically insisting on their right to be assholes, PZ Myers has suggested A*.

  9. 9
    Hank_Says

    People like Emery and Reap (I hope that’s not an anagram) exist – and then people ask why A+ is attractive. That’s like sitting down for a Glenn Beck/Bill-O marathon then wondering why so many people watch Jon Stewart.

    It is becoming clearer, daily, that being godless or skeptical or even a respected leader within those communities is no guarantee you’re not going to act like a spoiled toddler, a shortsighted privileged ignoramus or just a fucking rampant arsehole whenever someone challenges you, disagrees with you or makes you squirm by holding your actions and words up to the light (or just quoting you verbatim).

    Adam @ 3 is right: let these Limbaughs of atheism rail and rave and rant and insult and threaten and harass and make their “jokes” and hound people off the internet and start entire websites dedicated to slandering particular people. They’ll get the fans they deserve; reasonable people will behave reasonably and abandon them – then the slimy fucks can all be happy wailing and moaning to each other about how they were oppressed.

  10. 10
    fwtbc

    I mentioned both Reap and Emery in a comment on JT’s blog a few weeks ago, and quoted those same exact lines.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2012/09/going-to-be-in-a-risque-calendar/#comment-24685

    I’d be very curious to hear Secular Woman comment, but they never replied to my email.

  11. 11
    Tony Sidaway

    I’ve never really been able to understand what motivates these people. I’ve experienced some quite barkingly mad behaviour online in the past, but from the earliest days of the “Elevatorgate” fuss the push-back against quite reasonable requests for decent behaviour has been inexplicably rude and obnoxious.

    Nevertheless I’m very pleased and proud that, though the struggle has been wearying, some progress is being made. Light is being shone on some of these murkier corners of the movement, and change to more inclusive practices is beginning to happen.

  12. 12
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    It is interesting again how the Dillahunty-incident is spun.
    I admit I didn’t follow what exactly the disagreement was about, but what is clear to me is that Matt got banned for fucking sockpuppeting, which is something that gets you banned almost everywhere.
    But suddenly he got banned for disagreeing…
    And we have always been at war with East-Asia…

  13. 13
    skeptixx

    @ LeftSidePositive

    I missed what finally got “skep tickle” banned on A+ before Dillahunty decided to defend him, but I saw him being a very intentional troll, talking about how martyred he was going to be and deliberately pushing buttons and making people angry all so he could crow about how martyred he was. He was even continuing to do this on a thread where people were telling him they could see through his self-martyrdom! People bent over backwards to try to communicate with him and assume good faith, but he just kept burning those bridges (and accusing those people who were giving him useful advice of “telling him what to do”). So, if someone is going to say that this guy is “simply disagreeing” and that banning him after all this was “treating him like shit,” they’re basically saying we have to put up with every transparent troll from here to Tipperary!

    Let’s see. You’re relating your impression of this “skep tickle” person, yet you make the very basic error of assuming “skep tickle” is male?

    Kind of pulls the rug out from under your other baseless conclusions about this person, including your purportedly accurate insight into skep tickle’s thoughts, intentions, purpose, and frame of mind.

    If you want to discuss it further, face to face, “like a man” so to speak, I think Stephanie or Josh can tell you where you can find me.

    -Skep tickle (aka skeptixx)

  14. 14
    Brad

    Stephanie, please delete the other post, and this paragraph I accidentally clicked submit when scrolling down and hadn’t finished the last sentence.

    Every time I read about the haters, it just baffles me. I’m on the A+ forum, and while of course I don’t agree with everyone about everything there*, I have not seen (in the education subforum, anyway, which, aside from an animal rights discussion, is where the majority of my posts are) anything that could possibly explain the rage. The people who don’t get it and are capable of interacting in good faith should make accounts and have some discussions in the info&answers subform, that’s what it’s there for.

    I can’t think of an issue social justice advocates have ever been on the wrong side of. You can disagree with specific solutions offered, but claiming there isn’t a problem is just ridiculous whether it’s obscured by the prevailing culture like shitty behavior at events, or more obvious like every equal rights issue ever.

    *I think the Dillahunty incident induced some useful self-examination in the community, despite his well-intentioned breaking of the rules (for which he has been accordingly banned), and the flaws revealed have been or started to be corrected, including examining acceptable circumstances for second accounts. I also think some of the reaction is anger over the incident bringing to light some of the aforementioned issues. If my assessment is correct, it’s a bit embarrassing because, as I posted on the boards, we’re the ones always saying that talking about a problem isn’t the problem.

  15. 15
    medivh

    Or, Skeptixx, you could suggest a public place for the discussion to take place in. I’m sure that if you weren’t trolling and you see your ban as unfair that some members of the forum would be interested in your justifications and explanations.

    Because what I just saw was LSP made an assumption and then spoke convincingly on a subject that s/he has more experience on than me. And then you pulled out a giant non-sequitur on that assumption and told us all to assume the rest of LSP’s argument was bunk. Your assumption that LSP is male is as much an assumption as the reverse, but that’s not what makes your comment bunk.

    So you know; you could have a conversation in public as a show of, and somewhat enforcing, good faith argumentation. Or you could hide and make others wonder why. Too late to ignore the people ‘besmirching’ your name though – pulling away to begin ignoring will make most think you act in bad faith…

  16. 16
    Bjarte Foshaug

    If it’s not worth doing at all, it’s not worth doing well, and if there is one thing these wastes of space lack, it is something worth doing.

  17. 17
    Joshua Adams

    I found Reap through the link Dan Fincke has to his interview on the show awhile back. From there I found all his other shows with people I’d heard of from FTB. Reap seemed like a decent guy at the time. I liked the Angry Atheist podcast, and even started listening to each episode as it came out (though this didn’t last long).

    I don’t understand what would cause him to melt down like this. I removed him from my bookmarks after he wrote several spittle-flecked blog posts in response to Richard Carrier’s A+ article. I wasn’t a fan of that article either, but for some reason Reap decided that critiquing it wasn’t enough. He had to fly off the handle and attack Carrier as well as other people who had nothing to do with it, like Jen.

    As I was looking for other interesting episodes back then, I did see he had Vacula on, but chalked it up to not being very picky with his guests on a fledgling podcast. A lot of them are everyday people as far as I can tell. It’s not a bad thing to get the perspective of ordinary folks over “names” at all, but I figured it could be responsible for a few not-so-great people getting through. All Vacula had done at the time, that I knew about, was make some comments on a few of the blogs here siding with the Slimepit–not exactly enough to be a well-known persona non grata in the community. Perhaps if I’d listened to the Vacula interview there would have been signs of this earlier.

    Anyway, it’s all a shame, since his show is pretty well made and I think he is a good interviewer, and now it’s presumably impossible to stomach. However, if anyone hasn’t listened to the old episodes with their favorite bloggers, don’t assume they’re awful based on recent behavior.

  18. 18
    Stephanie Zvan

    Actually, Eliza, you were very up front at the slimepit about the fact that you weren’t interested in helping the forum meet it’s goals. LSP has your gender wrong, but everything else is pretty well on. And the reason LSP has your gender wrong is probably that you adopted an unusual handle that was already being used elsewhere by someone who is male. I see you’ve changed that.

    Now run back to the pit and be happy I was awake enough not to take “face to face” literally and tell LSP where you live.

  19. 19
    Shari

    @LSP -

    Yikes!

    ….but I can see how that could happen!

  20. 20
    Jenny B

    wow he seems like a rather angry person, perhaps he needs more effective stress relief ;) i personally love sitting in my garden closing my eyes and just listening to all the different noises around and.. occasionally falling asleep much to the annoyance of my partner ^_^

    silliness aside with people like that i always try to live by the idea that it takes as much effort to hate someone as to love them, and also that it takes as much effort to disrespect someone as to respect them but to simplify that a bit in this context i dont see the point on the guy expending so much energy and effort on being nasty to someone, especially just for the sake of being nasty (ahh cursed work it has removed my ability to use profanities lol) all that said im rather happy that you and others are staying strong and not lowering yourself to their level, id offer you a complimentary cookie buuut.. i dont have any cookies sorry :( plus they’d probably go stale in the post hehe

    as a side note.. how exactly does one ignore something in public as opposed to ignoring it in general? :S

  21. 21
    LeftSidePositive

    Ah, I see I misread the original quote. I thought “his exchange with Matt Dillahunty” referred to the troll seeking out supporters, and that he (the troll) was banned for disagreeing, since I thought it was pretty clear that Matt Dillahunty himself was banned for sockpuppeting, not disagreeing. But, now I see apparently that host linked is not actually that troll, and “he” referred to Dillahunty, not the troll. Oops. I guess I should have known “for disagreeing” is a transparent strawman used in an absurd variety of situations.

    Anyway, I still stand by my assessment that Skeptixx/skep tickle is a willful troll who adds nothing to the level of discourse, and that whole “face to face” thing is blatantly hostile and utterly inappropriate.

    And it’s not a baseless assumption to cite incidents of your behavior and point out that it is entirely consistent with a particular motivation, and very much inconsistent with another motivation (not to mention, I care more about your obnoxious behavior itself than whatever self-rationalization you’ve constructed about it!). If you want to claim I’m wrong, try to make a case for it, but frankly I think your flagrantly disingenuous behavior on that thread speaks for itself.

  22. 22
    A Hermit

    Ugh…I got pulled into this whole spectacle because, in a moment of boredom, I clicked on a link to the “Great Penis Debate” (having followed the fallout from “elevator-gate”) and sat there in awe at the insane reaction of Emery to someone asking politely about harassment policies. “spittle flecked” describes it perfectly. I have to thank Emery in a way for waking me up to just how hateful and idiotic some of my fellow unbelievers truly are at times. I was aware that the problem existed, but seeing it in Technicolor like that was a real revelation.

    The other thing that struck me was the failure of the women in that conversation to call the loudmouth out for his over the top ranting. That and I kept waiting for that damn bird to shit on his head…

  23. 23
    reappaden

    Effective = Bringing an issue to such a childish level that it causes others to make mature choices.
    You already lost Stephanie. You are just too damn dumb to figure it out. Listen to this well-
    I don’t give a fuck what you say I don’t give a fuck what you do. There is nothing you can do to stop me from doing/saying what I feel needs to be said.
    I’m one of those people you won’t make quiet. You can’t win
    It doesn’t matter what simpletons like you say about me. Intelligent people will figure it out while you spin your wheels trying to make yourself look good.
    Anytime you open that hole under your nose about me and I hear about it, I will have a reply to it.

    In the future if you don’t want to be called a bitch I would suggest you refrain from being one, seems simple enough to me. Even you should be able to figure it out. Gotta run, blog to write and radio to do later today. Idle hands and all that …I’ll be sure to address your opinion of my opinion.

    Now you go back to gloating over shit that should make you embarrassed

  24. 24
    Stephanie Zvan

    Reap tl;dr: nuh-UH!

    Okay, Reap. You have fun.

  25. 25
    A Hermit

    There is nothing you can do to stop me from doing/saying what I feel needs to be said.

    And apparently what “needs to be said” is something along the lines of “fuckinfuckityfuckfuck”. I actually listened to about five minutes of that podcast and that’s about as intelligent as it got…no attempt to address the issues behind the story, no argument, no thoughtful alternative point of view, just a stream of adolescent cursing. Pathetic…

  26. 26
    eric

    reap @23:

    You already lost Stephanie…There is nothing you can do to stop me from doing/saying what I feel needs to be said.

    Did SCA reinstate Justin Vacula as their representative in Pennsylvania? Because I don’t think her goal was to prevent you from saying what you feel needs to be said.

  27. 27
    Aratina Cage

    I’m one of those people you won’t make quiet. You can’t win –reappaden

    Actually, bringing this up and seeing your misogynistic ranting here has effectively silenced your voice to me and I’d imagine many, many others. Consider yourself quieted to those of us who give a damn.

  28. 28
    Shari

    Effective=…Vacula stepped down.

    Reap, I don’t think that word means what you think it does…

  29. 29
    opposablethumbs

    Oh dear, reap – let me see … “silencing” you – nope, your comment is right there for everyone to read. How about revealing your every utterance to be irrelevant bloviating? Takes no effort on our part, when you’re doing such a grand job of that all by yourself.

  30. 30
    Improbable Joe, bearer of the Official SpokesGuitar

    It is really odd how all the terrible people go out of their way to display how terrible they are, all while claiming to be victims AND winners all at the same time. This “Reap” person is a wonderful example of this. Is a nasty piece of work, thinks that being publicly nasty counts as victory, and makes the self-contradictory claim to be the target of some sort of silencing campaign.

    Reminds me a bit of when Ann Coulter was on a book tour complaining about how the mainstream media wouldn’t cover her because they are evil liberals and she’s a heroic conservative. How do I know she was complaining? She was on all the networks, and all the newspapers were covering her book tour, telling millions of people how the media was silencing her.

  31. 31
    Rabidtreeweasel

    See, I was going to go look up the speckle filled rant but he came HERE and gave one, saving me the trouble!

    What a swell guy.

  32. 32
    silomowbray, sans frottage pour la douche

    Reap sez, at 23:

    In the future if you don’t want to be called a bitch I would suggest you refrain from being one, seems simple enough to me.

    Question: Does that mean using Reap’s own logic it’s okay if he is referred to publicly as “misogynist” and “bigoted douchecanoe”?

  33. 33
    A. Noyd

    reappaden (#23)

    I don’t give a fuck what you say I don’t give a fuck what you do. … Anytime you open that hole under your nose about me and I hear about it, I will have a reply to it.

    Not caring: ur doin it wrong!

  34. 34
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    In the future if you don’t want to be called a bitch I would suggest you refrain from being one, seems simple enough to me.

    In the future, Reap, if you don’t want the entire world thinking you’re an unhinged, blithering, dishonest misogynistic bigot, I would suggest you refrain from being one. Seems simple enough to me.

    And the next time you want to pretend you’re so tough and can’t be silenced, you might want to refrain from cowering behind the “i don’t care what you say or do!” chickenshit dodge.

    You obviously do care, so much so that you made it absolutely clear you’re a very angry, unhinged bigot.

  35. 35
    Ophelia Benson

    Whew! Reap Paden was only a distant name to me until last Saturday, but now I know lots more about him. None of it reflects well on him!

  36. 36
    Brian Allen

    Thank you for listening and thank you for the plug

  37. 37
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Shorter Brian Allen: “NUH-UH! LOL!”

  38. 38
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Ophelia:

    Whew! Reap Paden was only a distant name to me until last Saturday, but now I know lots more about him. None of it reflects well on him!

    Would you like to learn more?

    And Lo!
    One shall come amongst us to shine the light of truth that we all may see the path to unbridled bitchiness. Those that fail to follow the path of the Chosen One shall…
    reap what you’ve sown.

    [this was meant to be humorous for those individuals who are sarcastically impaired]

  39. 39
    smhll

    Skeptixx, I’m guessing that you have a friendly relationship with one or two people that post at the Slymepit. And, I think, from what you posted on the A+ thread about the remove J. Vacula petition, that you think that guilt by association is not a valid argument. Most of the time I agree with that principle. However, I encourage you to go read randomly at the website AVoiceForMen for a reasonable chunk of time and evaluate the quality of the facts and logic of the posts and comments and the level of hostility in some posts. Just evaluate the discourse and content there against your own ethical standards. I’m asking you to do this because the presence of Vacula’s anti-Amy editorial there when he couldn’t use her necklace photo on his own site is a strongly divisive point in this debate.

  1. 40
    Reap Responds | Almost Diamonds

    [...] Reap Paden has left a comment on yesterday’s post about his public temper tantrum. Since I don’t have much time or attention for writing today, I thought I’d respond in detail. Effective = Bringing an issue to such a childish level that it causes others to make mature choices. [...]

  2. 41
    A new contestant | Butterflies and Wheels

    [...] has some thoughts on Reap Paden. Who? I don’t know, really, except that he’s a friend of Justin [...]

  3. 42
    How the Internet Fits In » Almost Diamonds

    [...] it put some distance between us and that guy who explodes in anger when challenged. Or that guy. Or all the other guys who do that. It allows us to have our say without having to put ourselves [...]

  4. 43
    So you were called a Misogynist on the Internet? Defining Misogyny… » Oolon's Blog

    [...] out by him calling her a “fucking bitch” over and over in a podcast of his. Referred to here and the start of the you’re “a misogynist” accusations to my knowledge. Looking [...]

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